Building Wellness, Marriage & Business Together

Entrepreneurship often requires more than a great idea—it requires trust, resilience, and a willingness to grow alongside the people building it with you.

In this episode of The Back Office, Dalayna Dillon sits down with Matt and Abbi Lee, the husband-and-wife team behind Divine Health & Wellness in downtown Sapulpa, Oklahoma.

Drawing from Matt's background in primary care and Abbi's experience in organizational leadership, they share how they combined their strengths to build a thriving wellness practice focused on helping people feel their best through personalized care.

Together, they discuss the realities of working alongside your spouse, building a strong team, expanding beyond state lines, navigating growth, and balancing the demands of entrepreneurship with marriage and family life.

Whether you're building a business with your spouse, leading a growing team, or simply trying to create something meaningful, this conversation offers practical insight and honest encouragement for the journey.

No one has it fully figured out.
But we’re building anyway.

In this episode, you'll hear about:

• The story behind starting Divine Health & Wellness
• How Matt and Abbi combined their different professional backgrounds
• What it's really like working together as husband and wife
• Building a healthy culture while growing a team
• Expanding a business beyond Oklahoma through virtual care
• Navigating growth without losing sight of your mission
• Balancing entrepreneurship, marriage, and raising a family
• Leadership lessons learned through building a business together
• Advice for entrepreneurs looking to grow with purpose

Show Notes

Guests: Matt & Abbi Lee
Business: Divine Health & Wellness

Matt and Abbi Lee are the husband-and-wife team behind Divine Health & Wellness, a modern wellness clinic located in the heart of downtown Sapulpa, Oklahoma. Combining Matt's background in primary care with Abbi's extensive experience in organizational leadership and business, they have built a practice centered on helping people achieve lasting wellness through personalized, holistic care.

What began as a vision to provide accessible, individualized health solutions has grown into a thriving business serving patients both in Oklahoma and beyond through in-person and virtual care. Along the way, they've navigated the unique challenges of building a business together as spouses while raising a family, growing a team, and expanding their impact.

In this episode, Matt and Abbi share the story behind Divine Health & Wellness, the lessons they've learned as entrepreneurs, and what it takes to build a business that remains focused on people while continuing to grow.

In This Episode, We Cover:

• Matt and Abbi's professional journeys before entrepreneurship
• The story behind launching Divine Health & Wellness
• Working together as husband and wife in business
• Building a strong team and creating a healthy workplace culture
• Growing from a local clinic to serving patients across state lines
• Leading through seasons of rapid growth
• Balancing entrepreneurship, marriage, family, and raising children
• Lessons learned from building and scaling a wellness business
• The importance of personalized, patient-centered care
• How their vision for Divine Health & Wellness has evolved over time
• Advice for entrepreneurs building a business alongside their spouse
• What the future holds for Divine Health & Wellness

Find Divine Health & Wellness Online:

Website: https://divinehw.com

Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/divinehealthandwellness

Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/divinehealthandwellness

About The Back Office

Hosted by Dalayna Dillon
Founder & Creative Director of Signify Marketing

The Back Office invites listeners into honest conversations about marketing, growth, leadership, and the real decisions shaping active businesses.

Facebook/Instagram: @signifymarketingsocial 

www.signifymarketing.social

Transcript

SPEAKER_04 0:06

Welcome to the back office. I'm Delena Dillon, the founder and creative director of Signify Marketing, and this is where you sit in on real strategy. Each episode we step into the side of active businesses and we have honest conversations about marketing, growth, leadership, and the things that are happening behind the scenes. So no one has it fully figured out, but we are building anyway. And today I'm joined by Matt and Abby Lee, the owners of Divine Health and Wellness in downtown Sepulpa. If you've never been to downtown Sepulpa, this is a perfect reason to come down here. Together, they've built a thriving wellness practice that's helping people pursue healthier lives through personalized care while also navigating something many entrepreneurs know very well: building a business together as husband and wife. So that makes it another little dynamic dynamic there. So Matt actually comes from a background in primary care, and Abby has served in leadership roles across several organizations. And so today we're going to talk about growing a business, building a team, working together, and expanding into new markets and balancing family along the way. And you just had to put one more thing on top of that.

SPEAKER_02 1:22

Right.

SPEAKER_04 1:23

So uh welcome, Matt and Abby. Why don't you all both just start out by um telling us a little bit more about you? I know Matt, I said you started in primary care, but I'm sure there's a lot more to it than that. You're born and raised sepulpa, yes?

SPEAKER_05 1:37

Uh in this actually area. I was actually born in this in the um whatever the hospital was called in um Bartlett Memorial Hospital in Sepulpa. So that is the origin of my story.

SPEAKER_04 1:49

Born a few miles from down the road, yeah.

SPEAKER_05 1:51

Right, yeah.

SPEAKER_04 1:52

So tell us what what where you started from, took off from there.

SPEAKER_05 1:57

Yeah, so I want to say thank you for the invite today. We're looking forward to this, and um just to tell our story about um how we got started and and where we are now and kind of the process and journey along the way. So um, yeah, so um small town guy, um raised in I think our small town was 1,100 people, and um but didn't let that hold uh me back. I I had uh great uh family support and um you know college was never uh an if it was yeah you're going. And so um really realized that uh through athletics actually and um and then um and then academics as well. So um got my start as a um as a nurse and then went directly into um nurse practitioner school at the University of Oklahoma. Uh who could date myself, but that was uh I've been out for 23 years now, so practicing medicine. So yeah, so there's a little bit about um you know my my backstory.

SPEAKER_04 3:02

So and then did y'all meet at what point in this process?

SPEAKER_05 3:06

Oh boy, what a story. Would you like to use that?

SPEAKER_00 3:10

Yeah, I mean, um, so you were working primary care at the time, and one of the nurses who I was friends with her and her husband um introduced us, set us up on a blind double date with them over sushi, and uh the rest is kind of history from there. Okay, so blind date. Yep, yep. Sorry, kind of we had we had met in passing before then, but had never really had a full conversation.

SPEAKER_04 3:36

Well, so were you from this area too, Abby?

SPEAKER_00 3:38

So I was born in Tulsa. Um, and then I my dad worked for Walmart at the time, and so we moved every six months. So I was changing schools every six months, and then um when I was in end of middle school, beginning of high school, he quit to become a youth pastor. Oh and so we settled in Virginia for a while, and I came back this way for college and actually came back to Tulsa to help my grandparents with their business, and I thought I would wind up in New York City and met him, and now I live in rural Oklahoma.

SPEAKER_04 4:12

So, okay, that I'm thinking so the New York City thing, is that where some of your where was that bleeding? Like where why New York City?

SPEAKER_00 4:24

I think I just I've always been a city person. I thrive in like um those sorts of environments. My background is in nonprofit, and so I thought I would be doing something with this. I also have a background in missions, and so um I love being around other cultures and learning about people, and so that was just kind of what I had in the back of my mind, that's where I would land.

SPEAKER_04 4:45

But where did besides you met Matt and then and then where what did what did life look like?

SPEAKER_00 4:50

So I met you while I was working at the Tulsa Health Department as an epidemiologist.

SPEAKER_04 4:56

So you were kind of in health, it was in public health, yep.

SPEAKER_00 4:59

Um, so I was working with numbers, education, things like that. And then um I got out of that and went into nonprofit for a while, and now I'm back in public health leadership type role.

SPEAKER_04 5:12

So, what role are you in now?

SPEAKER_00 5:13

So beyond what we do for the clinic, obviously Matt is more involved in the day-to-day. Yeah, I get brought in on some of the bigger decisions, but um I am the public health officer for Muskogee Nation, the tribe here in Tulsa.

SPEAKER_04 5:28

So I think it's interesting too how you kind of have circulated around health.

SPEAKER_00 5:32

I mean yes, it's always been a part of my life for sure. So I'm also a certified yoga instructor. So a friend of mine and I, we get to lead groups of women on wellness retreats across, well, I mean, across the world, really. And so that's kind of brought in like my passion for travel and culture and things like that too.

SPEAKER_04 5:51

Yeah, well, and mul a lot of ultr entrepreneurs can relate to the multi-passion. Is that have what we call multi-passionate type of thing? So yeah, for sure. Okay, so then you were in primary care. How did we get here to divine?

SPEAKER_05 6:09

So actually, um, I was in primary care for I believe 12 years, and um I was in urgent care actually. Um, and I do have a background in urgent care, emergency medicine as well, and uh was in urgent care uh during COVID, and um just being really honest got super um burned out. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 6:32

We were married with two kids at the time.

SPEAKER_05 6:34

So yeah. Yeah, so um I worked for a corporation at that point, and in the back, I don't know, in the back of my mind, I thought potentially there could be um a time where we owned our own clinic.

SPEAKER_01 6:49

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 6:50

I came home one evening and I think that I had seen like 60 or 70 patients in a day um during COVID, and I just said we gotta do something different.

SPEAKER_01 7:00

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 7:00

And um through her support, sometimes I blamed her for that support, by the way, because I was like, why in the world did you ever you know encourage me to do this? You know, just because it's so much, you know, heavy lifting up front, yeah. Um as I know that we'll get into. But um, and then through some um through the support of some really, really good friends um really just uh kind of pushed us and and helped us even find the location and settle in in Sepulpa. And so um we took the leap of it. And um for the first uh I believe 18 months of the clinic, um continued to have my urgent care job and then put all the money um that the clinic was was making right back into.

SPEAKER_01 7:44

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 7:45

Um so again, a lot of heavy lifting, a lot of uh long, long hours, early mornings, late nights. Um and then I remember the first day that I I paid myself, and it was 18 months after after opening the doors, and it and it felt really that's exciting. Yeah, so but um now that we're we will celebrate five years uh as a business um this fall. Five years?

SPEAKER_04 8:12

Yeah, oh my goodness, that is crazy.

SPEAKER_05 8:15

I'm telling you, you've kind of been in this journey with us a little bit.

SPEAKER_03 8:18

So it is so crazy.

SPEAKER_05 8:20

So a lot of bumps and bruises along the way, lots of um, you know, lots of learning lessons, yeah, and uh a lot of discovery about my myself. Um and and I would even say that it's it's strengthened our marriage, our relationship, just because for the most part, there have been those times where we've had to really learn through this process right now. Yes. Yeah, and I can go in a lot of depth just as far as you know what the person that I am today is nowhere near the person that I was. And um and I think it's just a a lot of uh, you know, and I'm gonna bring in a guy here in my faith, but um a lot of just lessons and and and and trials that really has caused me to lean uh into my faith and and and kind of uh overarching story maybe um with that is is not putting any ceiling on us, our business, our family, um, which I had uh admittedly done in the majority of my life. So um once once that kind of realization came along, I said, you know, we're we're taking you know every you know every potential opportunity to allow this business to be what God intended it to be.

SPEAKER_04 9:42

Yeah. That is so so good. So I want to go back a little bit to the fact that um you were working, well, kind of like a pinnacle moment was COVID, you working in the urgent care. I think so many people in the medical field can relate to being so burnt out after that season and just knowing something needed to change, but they don't all go open their own.

SPEAKER_02 10:08

No, but yeah.

SPEAKER_04 10:10

So what did you really want to do? Like, what was it that you wanted to do differently that really set it apart?

SPEAKER_05 10:18

I I believe that, and I still believe this, that people were searching for different answers to um to overall health and models and um not to go on you know any rabbit trails or anything like that. I I think it really opened the door to uh some of the things that I believed in, yeah, and uh and pertaining to health and wellness and and um um being able to take kind of the handcuffs off a little bit, yeah. Um not not always kind of giving the the corporate um response to how to you know treat someone, right? And I think that you know one of the good things that came out of COVID is that people were were kind of looking and searching for maybe a little bit different experience when it comes to medicine and their overall uh health journey. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 11:06

So um and if I can just add to that too, I mean we always tell people we fell in love when we were serving in Haiti, and so service has always been a part of our relationship. Um, and so we've always felt like that was a calling for us. Um, it's something we try to implement within our family, and so health care and and this wellness journey for us has been a way to serve our community, yeah. And so um I think that has been a part of it too. We get we get the opportunity to do that, yeah.

SPEAKER_05 11:36

Yeah, no, and that and thank you for bringing that up um too, because it's such a good reminder that um when you talk about culture and you start talking about into okay, what do you want your business to be known for? And as corny or ironic or whatever you want to call it, um I just I wanted to people have I wanted for people to have a different um feel, a different journey, um, a different uh I don't know, whenever they they left here, experience. Whenever they left here, or whether that it was in person or in telehealth, I wanted them to feel love.

SPEAKER_01 12:12

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 12:12

And as as weird as that sounds, and I know for most people that they don't they don't necessarily look for that experience before they go to their healthcare practitioner, but I wanted I wanted that to be kind of like what our um clients, our patients, uh really left with.

unknown 12:31

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 12:32

There's something different about that clinic, but I don't know exactly what it was, but I like it.

SPEAKER_01 12:36

Yeah. Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 12:37

I want to go back. Right. I want to, that's the place that I feel like um I'm I'm I'm welcome.

unknown 12:44

I'm listening to.

SPEAKER_05 12:46

You know, because I think you know, a lot of a lot of times, especially for people that that we get to sit down and speak with, is that they don't feel heard. And we just wanted to make sure that that's what people were doing, people were feeling whenever they came in and and and uh were seen from. And so um that and just you know, a really a culture that was um about you know the patient's journey, the um, and then also the staffing as far as like, hey, we're gonna love on each other like family. That doesn't mean we always get along, but you know, we're we're not gonna always see eye to eye, but we are gonna be supportive for what this business stands for. So culture was a really, really big thing, and I'm glad to say now that you know um our staff, I I would I I would put them up against anyone.

SPEAKER_01 13:39

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 13:40

I've been so completely blessed uh with the staff here, and um and and they they get the whole kind of mission and they get the whole kind of vision.

SPEAKER_01 13:49

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 13:49

Um and they also you know put up with a lot of my creative ideas that I oftentimes come back with.

SPEAKER_00 13:57

I'm thankful for other people to help carry that burden, yes.

SPEAKER_05 14:00

Yeah, because Abby has to hear all about it, right? Because I mean I think as as a supportive wife in in launching um, you know, truly I would say that that I'm the kind of the visionary. Yeah, this is where we're going, this is what I feel like that we need to be focused on. Um let's figure out how to do that.

SPEAKER_01 14:19

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 14:20

And uh so I know I I I I burden Abby with that on a lot of occasions.

SPEAKER_00 14:27

We joke because he is a morning person and I am not a morning person, and so he'll get up at five and start thinking, and then he'll want to share that with me at that time of day. Yeah, and my brain is not working at that time, so yeah.

SPEAKER_05 14:40

So but uh but it truly has, and it's truly been a great experience. Um and um Yeah, I I wouldn't even and I want to be kind of clear how I say that I I don't believe that that failure really is even an option. And the reason why I I bring that up is because failure so often is look at looked upon as a negative thing. And and I I once was kind of in that camp of oh, I can't fail, I'm afraid to fail. Um and it holds people back from actually being able to have the success that they really want. Yeah, but that fear of failure actually causes them to to hesitate, causes them to kind of be um kind of resist whatever it takes, you know, to kind of take that next step. Um, and really kind of taken in that that whole mindset that okay, failure really is just an opportunity to learn.

SPEAKER_01 15:44

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 15:44

And so you either succeed or you learn.

SPEAKER_01 15:47

Or you learn.

SPEAKER_05 15:48

And so it's never that, oh my gosh, that didn't work. So I must not know what I'm doing. And then also to kind of go along with that, is you aren't gonna know what you're doing. Every decision that you have to make, you're not gonna know exactly the right step to take.

SPEAKER_01 16:08

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 16:08

And and it's okay.

SPEAKER_01 16:09

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 16:10

And it's okay to not know all the answers at that point, but realize that it's also okay to feel anxious and nervous about it and still move forward. Yeah. Because I think that's one thing we I think people are always waiting for.

SPEAKER_04 16:26

It feels right.

SPEAKER_00 16:27

When it feels right, yep, yeah, and I'm confident, but that is not necessarily how you make decisions, right?

SPEAKER_05 16:32

It can't be because you'll never, you know, paralysis by analysis kind of a situation. And um and that that is that is really, really true. And and and just being okay with it. Yeah. And um, and so and I I said it earlier, but the way that I made decisions and the way that I I I approached the daily um kind of task and the things that needed to happen year one versus now at year five is completely different.

SPEAKER_01 17:03

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 17:03

And again, I still don't know all the answers, and I'm admittedly, you know, saying that, but but I I I won't let that allow or cause me to to hesitate or push back.

SPEAKER_04 17:14

Yeah. Well, what did making decisions look like in year one versus what they look like now?

SPEAKER_05 17:20

Well, I mean, it it I and I should say this that leap of faith is truly a leap of faith.

SPEAKER_01 17:26

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 17:27

And um we started this business on a very nominal amount of money, and we both looked at each other and just like, if we fall on our face, it's not gonna cause us to you know to crash.

SPEAKER_01 17:40

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 17:40

And so um so we're just so naive about things, it's so funny to think about it.

SPEAKER_03 17:46

But I think we needed to be naive in order to move forward. We wouldn't have done it. We wouldn't have done it, right?

SPEAKER_05 17:52

And and I'll say this, it just um momentum is a really big thing. And once you take like the first step and you see that it's semi-successful, whatever successful looks like, then you take the next step and you're like, oh, I'm creating a little bit of a pattern here. Yeah, you know, yeah, I don't feel like I've got everything figured out yet, but we're gonna keep this thing going. And so a momentum was a really, really big deal. Now with that being said, truly again, you know, relating to my faith, I truly believe that it was at the right time, the right opportunity. Um and I I just took one faith step.

SPEAKER_01 18:39

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 18:40

Um and so I I just, you know, in a lot of ways, I just felt like that that God has just gifted us with this business and in a lot of in a lot of different ways. And so I have to say that um because I I I truly feel that. Now it I'd also learned very, very early on that this clinic is so much bigger than what just she and I.

SPEAKER_01 19:03

Right.

SPEAKER_05 19:04

This was a um you know, creating a business in itself, it's like not I mean this gonna sound a little bit weird, but it's like a child, yeah, and you're pouring into this, and you're like, well, that's that is an entity in itself. And so all the energy, all of the focus, and all of the um, you know, the sacrifice, and and so it it just kind of takes on a whole life of itself on its own. And uh, you know, now we look back now and think, how did we get here and um but just truly feel so blessed.

SPEAKER_01 19:43

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 19:44

I was gonna also say, you know, one of the other things between then and now is that we've been very selective in the people that we've surrounded ourselves with.

SPEAKER_04 19:52

And so You mean like working here or just like outside of here?

SPEAKER_00 19:56

I mean working here, what we've been as what Matt said, we've been very blessed with the people that were working here. But I think what I mean is the people that we use as sounding boards when we're making these sorts of decisions, yeah. Um, you know, not everybody's gonna be excited because they don't know. Yeah, you know, they don't understand the experience you're going through. And when it gets tough, they might tell you to quit. And so we have put people in our place who are in our lives who have had to make those sorts of decisions and be able to give us good advice, not making the decision for us, but just you know, bringing up things that maybe we're blind to so that we're able to be the most wise when we kind of make the decisions.

SPEAKER_04 20:33

Well, I think that's hard too. People are always often business owners are often look for people that they can talk to, but those people still don't have the vision that you have, and so you do have to be careful because they could be putting water on your fire. Absolutely, you know.

SPEAKER_05 20:49

I so appreciate you bringing that up, Daddy, because um I I think that was probably early on you were talking about how we kind of make business decisions and that kind of thing, and that's such a great point because we we learned really quickly that we we needed to be here, yeah, sharing our our our thoughts, ideas, our vision, because whenever we would bounce our ideas off of other people and people that we thought were you know kind of like would cheer us on, yeah, it was really a kind of a I don't even know how to describe it, just kind of a disappointing, you know, kind of response in most cases.

SPEAKER_01 21:30

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 21:31

And so um to Abby's point, you know, really um putting people in our lives and and be uh being intentional about you know, those people who are also kind of going through similar things. Um because there was a while that it was extremely like you know and it's still like that sometimes.

SPEAKER_00 21:52

I mean there's always kind of a moment about that.

SPEAKER_05 21:54

Yeah, and and but we've we've also learned along the way that uh You know, really who who can we uh really kind of you know talk through um uh th those things with uh and if I can kind of even go a little bit further than that. I um about two years ago I was introduced to uh a business coach.

SPEAKER_04 22:20

Okay.

SPEAKER_05 22:21

And and I say business coach loosely uh because that's how it started. Um but he uh he has spoken into my live. Um I meet with him uh about two times a month uh now and it's it's it's kind of developed into this role of him kind of being more of a mentor. So we talk about business stuff, we talk about uh relational stuff as far as you know from a marriage perspective, we talk about just kind of you know what the future looks like as far as like okay, what's your vision, what's your you know, where are you where are you going?

SPEAKER_01 23:02

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 23:02

Um and so I would encourage anyone who's considering um uh starting their own business to find someone that can coach you along the way. And I I I likened it to um when we first got started, because we had kind of this astronomical growth um over those first 12 months. And I I likened it to like a 16-year-old that just got their license that was driving a Ferrari and had no idea how to, you know, how to keep it out of the ditch.

SPEAKER_01 23:33

Right.

SPEAKER_05 23:33

And I credit um my business coach, my mentor to really kind of keeping it, keeping the business out of the ditch.

SPEAKER_01 23:41

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 23:42

And now, like I said, it's grown way more than just you know from a business mentor.

SPEAKER_00 23:47

Yeah. And that relationship you might actually have to pay for too. It's kind of like marketing, right? Yeah, it's those expenses that you don't think you need to build into your budget, but man, it's the thing that keeps your business going.

SPEAKER_04 23:59

So I think people might not even know where to find someone like that because I know it's I wouldn't have heard business owners say it considering they they look, they I guess they might look for a business coach that has some it's just gone. But I think that's again something that I say along even the person that's on a different level than you are, whether I don't even know that I'd like to say above or below, just like a different place that could speak into you. Anyone can speak into you, like they might not even be in your same industry, they might not have ever been in your industry. Um, because everyone is always gonna be fill figuring it out. But how does someone even find someone like that and not try to just quant qualify them? You know, are you good enough or are you do you know enough to be able to speak into my business?

SPEAKER_05 24:50

Sure. No, and and I'll just kind of tell you about our our our how all of this happened for us. Um I reached out to a really um um great friend that I've I've known literally for all my life who is ex if I said his name, I mean he's well known here in Tulsa. And um he he's a man of faith, he knows my background, uh, reached out to him, I was like, hey, this is kind of what I'm looking for. Do you know someone that I could just meet with for I don't know, six months or so? Yeah, and he he I mean got right back to me.

SPEAKER_04 25:22

He's like, it's this guy, and so and he knew him because he was doing business coaching?

SPEAKER_05 25:27

Yeah, because he he had had some experience with him. Okay, and so I have to tell you about the first um conversation with my my mentor, so it was a telephone conversation, and and we're talking along, and he's kind of given me like his credentials. Like, hey, this is kind of what I do, this is who I have worked with, but what you said, don't know really if they have any experience in your in your space or not. Um, this is kind of who I've worked with, and it was he if you if you didn't know, I mean you you would think, oh my goodness, he's just kind of dropping names because it was kind of like that kind of list. And I was like, hold on a second. I said, How would I qualify for you to meet with me? I mean, after he kind of told me so here I am, you know, just started, don't know anything or whatever. And he goes, Well, do you love God? I said, Yes. He goes, Do you own a business? I said, Yes. He goes, You qualify. Yeah. So uh so I'm very gracious or grateful, you know, that um that he took a you know, a new entrepreneur like me. Yeah, and it's kind of helped, kind of um um, you know, helped me along the way.

SPEAKER_04 26:38

Yeah. So going back to when you said the first 18 months of your owning, opening, running, divine, you weren't taking a paycheck. I think that that's enough time where some entrepreneurs might give up because they're like, I'm still not making money after 18 months.

SPEAKER_05 26:55

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 26:56

Speak to those people.

SPEAKER_05 26:57

Yeah, no, that's okay. And and and again, just kind of reflecting, and I I love this because it's causing me to think on things that I haven't thought about in a while. Um, I would say really take it upon yourself to look at this as a um everything that comes back goes right back into the business. Yeah, and so it's almost like hands off, right? Um I'm not by nature a real, real big risk taker. And so I didn't just like burn the ships, yeah, so to speak, you know, whenever I went in. And so um I kind of kept, you know, just because of where we are were, you know, Abby, I think you were still in school or kind of pursuing, you know, another degree. And so I we still needed an income. And so um I think that probably as I look back is probably one of the the better things that we did.

SPEAKER_01 27:51

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 27:52

Um, and and it did take a particular mindset that yeah, I see that bank account growing, I still need to be hands-on because the money that that is the businesses, it's the businesses, right? And that is what um I mean, we ran the business extremely, extremely lean for a very, very long time. And whenever I say that I answered the phone, I saw the patients, I booked patients, I took payment, you know.

SPEAKER_02 28:19

Clean the office.

SPEAKER_05 28:20

Clean the office, clean the toilets. I mean, it for the first you know, several months, um, that's what I did. Yeah. And so um, so it was whenever I say was a very humble start, I mean that. And um, but I also have known other entrepreneurs that have been like, you know, take out a small business loan, and you know, this is I'm just gonna do it, you know. Um, that is not my particular makeup or chemistry when it comes to, you know, again, just kind of taking those risks. So I wouldn't say that it has to be necessary the way that I I did it or that we did it, um, but it was something that we wanted to make sure that we got the business in a financial place that it had its best opportunity to succeed.

SPEAKER_04 29:04

Yeah. Well, I've had so many conversations with business owners, and one of the biggest lessons that they had to learn was the financial side of the business. Because they're like, I just want to go do the business, which for you would be like seeing patients, what you know, all of that kind of stuff. But then all of that other stuff is the stuff they don't want to do, and so that's kind of their learning lessons. But by you be being willing to like let the business do that and having that figured out at the get-go, it really did set it up to take off.

SPEAKER_05 29:36

Um, yes, it it it really did. And I I will say um that I'm gonna say just kind of in that same 18-month you know, time frame that we're talking about, um, I learned a ton about myself. I learned about my strengths, I learned about the things that I like to do, and I learned about the things that I absolutely hate. And so I think that what um it's it's a very, you know, uh look at you know, I looked at myself in the mirror and it was like, oh my gosh. I mean, it was glaringly obvious where my weak spots were, right? And and just being okay with that. Yeah, but then also taking that and being like, okay, so how do I take those weak points, those weaknesses in my and I hate to say weaknesses, maybe I should just to re restate it as areas that I need I need help in.

SPEAKER_01 30:29

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_05 30:30

And hire people who uh love to do those things. Yes, right, and that's where their strengths are. And I think that as you talk about kind of business leadership in general, I think the the business the best leaders that I've ever been around, they have been humble enough to say, okay, I'm really, really good at this, I'm not so great at that. Let's hire people who are really really good at this in an area that I'm weak in.

SPEAKER_01 30:59

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 31:00

And so um, and those those areas that I needed to improve upon um were abundant.

SPEAKER_01 31:07

Right.

SPEAKER_05 31:07

So um, so our staff, um, and I would love to say that I've been like this amazing, you know, um high you know, person who's hiring and you know, those types of things, but um just some of the stories and and and and how our staff got to be a part of uh our company have have truly been you know nothing less than a miracle in itself. And so um so yeah, just just being okay with um you know not having the thought that I have to be good at every place that it takes to be to to run a successful business. Yeah, but knowing that you had to have someone, you know, and I did it as long as I could, right? I mean I kind of um we we went as long as we could without hurting the business before really knowing uh who to hire and what that person looks like that um that would fulfill those those spots, you know.

SPEAKER_01 32:11

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 32:12

So yeah.

SPEAKER_00 32:14

I mean I think the only thing to add is the the when you start to grow as either a leader or a business owner, you realize you only have 24 hours in a day. That's right. And so you have to maximize that time to the best of your ability. So if saving that money in that time is what you need to do in order for the business to thrive, that's the decision you make. But then you get to a point where your skill set has grown, you you know, your time can be best spent growing the business somewhere else. I think that is when you make that decision to bring someone else on if you're able and you have the the infrastructure to do that.

SPEAKER_04 32:50

Um so yes, Abby, what are some of the things that you because you have worked at some other large organizations, um, what are some of those leadership things that translate to any business owner with any size of company?

SPEAKER_00 33:06

Yeah, I think one of the biggest things when Matt was talking that I was thinking about, and and you kind of hit on this, was that a good leader knows that the only reason you're successful is because you have surrounded yourself with people who aren't good at what they do. Yeah. And so you um you hire slow or no, no, you uh is that what it is? You hire slow and you and you hire fast. So yeah. That you um so that you, yeah, you just have the best team um that's helping you just work because you as a leader, like I said, you your time, you your time is what you're you're really kind of leveraging when you when you grow. And so um you want a team that's able to kind of take those on. And and that is kind of what we've learned both in this business, but also in my other jobs as well.

SPEAKER_01 33:50

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 33:51

And if if I can add to that, not to again just completely take over. Um but the uh but you know, the real realization too, and I I I've seen it and read about it in you know um in an early entrepreneur is that it so often happens that the thing that's holding the company back is yourself.

SPEAKER_04 34:16

Yes, yes.

SPEAKER_05 34:17

And so knowing, you know, exactly what what Abby just says, like knowing my capabilities, knowing um, you know, that I only have so much time. So I I have to to uh delegate, I have to make sure that um I'm operating in those areas that best. Yeah. And then handing off those duties to a person who really can take that over. And then really encouraging everyone around you to operate at the highest potential uh potential operating it in a way that they're just always doing the best that they could possibly do in that position.

SPEAKER_00 35:02

Yeah, and I think part of that is also providing them opportunities to learn and grow as well. And so the only way is is empowering your people to make those decisions. So I think sometimes you have to provide that space because that was the other thing too, is we noticed that you know some people were scared to make mistakes, and because we had already been through that, we're like, it's no big deal, like you're gonna make mistakes. So we want you to learn through this process. So here, you have the ability to make this decision. Um, and if it's the wrong one, then we'll figure out how to make it better in the future.

SPEAKER_04 35:33

So yeah. So you talked about hiring slow, firing fast. Is that something we can dig a little more into? Have y'all had to fire? Have you had situations where you had to kind of move people that were not a good fit for the business, for the culture, for the time, even that you had to move? I mean, is this something we can do? No, no, no.

SPEAKER_05 35:56

Yeah, we we can, we can thankfully somebody took the microphone. So um, yeah, thankfully that that this has not happened a lot. Okay. Um, but um one particular person we had hired a four position, um, we had our suspicions within the first two weeks.

SPEAKER_04 36:15

Really? That fast.

unknown 36:17

That fast.

SPEAKER_04 36:17

Wow.

SPEAKER_05 36:18

And so the realization came, we were like, okay, we're gonna play this out, we're gonna give like a uh plan of improvement. We're gonna make sure that this person knows the things that we absolutely have to add. Yeah, and if it's not being done, then we just the the the the work still stayed the same. Um there was no change, and we just kind of made that decision that this is not gonna be.

SPEAKER_00 36:56

Yeah. Well, and I think the other way to look at that too is that we want a position to fit both us and them. Yeah, right. So you don't want somebody working for you who always feels like they're failing, who's not excited to come to work now. Are we always excited to come to work now? But you want to like your job, and so um, if that's not a good fit, I think that is a bit of a kindness to say, hey, this is not a good fit for both of us. And so um, I think that's the type of conversation we have.

SPEAKER_04 37:24

But have the conversation quick.

SPEAKER_00 37:25

But have the conversation quick. Don't and and as a leader, you know, that's the other thing that I've learned, I think we both have learned is that leaders make the hard decisions. Yeah, and so you have the hard conversations even when you don't want to. Yeah, um, and when you procrastinate, that's kind of when you make it worse. You make it worse for them too. Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 37:44

And and if I can kind of stay on that point just for a second, you know, I'm I'm um I've learned a ton from my business mentor, and one of the things that he has taught me, and I hear his voice, is when you are going to have that difficult conversation, yeah, the first sentence needs to be exactly what your intentions are. So if that is you're you're planning to fire that person that day, the first sentence is we're we're gonna go a different way. We're you know, we're gonna fire.

SPEAKER_03 38:13

Start there.

SPEAKER_05 38:14

Yeah, start there. Because a lot of the times, and this this speaks to me because I I care for people. I love I love people. Yeah, and and so it in times past it's made it very, very difficult to have very difficult conversations. And so um he's helped me with that just tremendously. And it's just okay, set them down, tell them what your intention is, yeah, and then if you feel like you need to explain, then you can explain. Or if you if if you need to, you know, take those questions from that person, then that you give that that opportunity. Um, but just like Abby said, one of the things that he he has always told me is like, hey, letting someone go gets them closer to a position that actually works better for them. Right. And so that took so much pressure off of me thinking, oh my gosh, they're not gonna have a job. They're not, you know, maybe this is how it impacts their family or that kind of thing. No, it just gets them closer to a job where they um they're they're they're gonna flourish in. Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 39:17

So it's most likely someone who on in the second week you're already like scratching your head about them. They're probably not someone who's like, but I really loved it. I don't know what it's doing here.

SPEAKER_05 39:26

Right, exactly.

SPEAKER_00 39:27

You know, um if they're saying that and we're still not getting it, then we need to question our leadership. So we doing wrong situations.

SPEAKER_04 39:37

Yeah. So Divine Now, yes, it's in Spalpa, it's a local business, but it's serving we're all. I mean, you're not just serving clients in Oklahoma. Give a little more idea of the scale.

SPEAKER_05 39:50

Yeah, thank you. Um so, and I'm gonna go back to the very you know, opening um as far as the year one. And so we were still during it was during COVID um laws as far as like telehealth um and all that. So we could actually see patients in any state in the US. And so uh what was really interesting as we we first grew is that we would get these little pods, I call them pods, with groups of patients from different places throughout the US.

SPEAKER_02 40:18

Uh-huh.

SPEAKER_05 40:19

So we had a pod in in, believe it or not, in in in Hollywood, California.

SPEAKER_02 40:24

Really?

SPEAKER_05 40:24

We saw yeah, we saw some very high-end, you know, type of clientele um there, and and then we saw some um in in the Dallas Fort Worth area.

SPEAKER_01 40:35

Okay.

SPEAKER_05 40:35

Uh so in Texas, uh saw some in California, upper kind of Michigan um area as well. So and then uh laws changed, and so we had to go back to um being licensed in every state.

SPEAKER_04 40:48

So this was when the laws changed as in they just more restrictions with telehealth. Is that probably because a lot of more people with COVID were doing telehealth?

SPEAKER_00 40:57

Um they they changed the laws during COVID to make sure that we were able to get as many people in as possible. Right. So they they opened it. Opened it. Yes, they opened it okay for COVID just so that healthcare could kind of adjust to what the need was. Once that was managed, then they started closing and returning back to where they were.

SPEAKER_05 41:19

So um yeah, so that we it was kind of open range, so to speak. And so um the Wild West, not just it was it was a Wild West that it exactly but going back to um, and Abby and I would would joke and kind of laugh about it, it's like you know, if here here we are in small town America, yeah, seeing you know, patients that were you know in very, very large cities and had very, very neat kind of job descriptions that they were uh fulfilling. But um then things changed, went back to kind of where you had to be licensed, you know, in each state. And so we um we hated that in one in one sense because we had grown to really um enjoy um these patients that are that were out of state. And so we just kind of had to be super creative and and uh and so we started gaining licensure and in several of the states uh personally. And so we're in 11 states as far as the our our practitioners here um in the clinic. Um and and then also we have a partnering um group that we uh are a part of that allows us to see patients in all 50 states. Oh wow, and so um so technically if there's a patient in New York, um we can see them, um Florida, Washington, wherever, all the corners of the US, so yeah, we can we can see them now.

SPEAKER_04 42:41

Wow. So technically you are a local business, but you're a national business as well.

SPEAKER_05 42:47

Yep, locally owned. Um, we're not a part of the franchise, yeah, or anything like that.

SPEAKER_04 42:52

Um is that something you'd want to look into in the future, or do you like the model?

SPEAKER_05 42:58

So and and we we've talked about this um and it pertaining to a couple of different areas, and because we have have thought about brand-on partners. And um so going back to um we we've never wanted the experience to change for the nation. Um we've always for lack of a better term, we've always wanted people to kind of feel that mom and pop, like really warm, you know, kind of um welcome, you know. And we we've we've been concerned as we have grown that people would lose that.

SPEAKER_01 43:35

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 43:35

And so something that the business is known for. You don't want to get away from that. And so I think we protect that. Um we protect our culture with with who we kind of partner with, yeah. Um as well, and uh and make sure that they they match, you know, what we're based on. Yeah, um we always have the conversation of how you scale it.

SPEAKER_04 44:00

Yeah, how to scale that. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_05 44:02

Yeah, and you you do run the risk, and and we realize that you do do run the risk of of losing a little bit of that. Um but uh always putting those people in place that and and I on day one, whenever we are are are looking to hire for someone in a position, uh we tell them very, very openly in Canada that uh in order to be a part of this company you have to love others, right? You have to do things in with a very, very high level of integrity. Um do the things that you say you're gonna do, do a lot. And um and then the other thing is that you have to do a lot of it. And if you cannot do that, you you have to and so um we we just always have to double down on really protecting that culture and really protecting the water.

SPEAKER_04 45:01

Yeah. So that that is that is probably a constant tension you have to balance.

SPEAKER_05 45:08

It it is, um and because we've always said and it's kind of cliche that you know people overprofit. Yeah, and so um, and we still to this day believe that.

SPEAKER_00 45:19

But at the end of the day, you still have to make profit in order to provide jobs for for our staff, and you know, and that's but but there could have been decisions we know there would have been decisions that we could have made in a different way that could have made us money, right? But it would have sacrificed the things that our business stood for.

SPEAKER_04 45:36

Yeah.

unknown 45:37

So that's a really great point.

SPEAKER_04 45:39

Yeah. So with entrepreneurship being what it is, it kind of can just bleed into every part of your life, not to mention the fact that y'all do have other things that you guys get your hands in inside of the mind. Some I think that's probably just the entrepreneurial spirit that y'all have. But how with it being that way, how do you really protect? Speaking of protecting, how do you protect things like your marriage and your family? Like you do have two kids. So, how do you protect that and kind of draw a line around that? Um, as you have all of these things that are 24-7 going on.

SPEAKER_00 46:17

I think we're still learning that lesson, or not the lesson, I think we're still learning how to do that well. Um, because you have to say no to good things in order to say yes to great things. And so that is really hard, especially for someone who is an entrepreneur and wants to have those different experiences and be a part of different things. And so I think you have to, well, one, I the advantage of being married and having this business is that we're able to balance things off of each other and have those conversations. So communication is key for us. Constant communication. And sometimes you even have to plan that, right? You know, you're not gonna necessarily have the time unless you carve it out to talk through what are next steps, what do we have going on now? Um, and so we're we're learning how to do that and we're learning how to say no to some of the things in our life that are really good, um, but maybe aren't the greatest things for this time in our life.

SPEAKER_05 47:12

Now I'll add to that, um Abby has a love for travel and uh which I love about her. And so and it's really interesting because we we will have a trip planned and and it always happens this way when when it feels like kind of the wheels are getting a little bit wobbly, we'll have a trip, and it'll be us, and it'd be a great time for us to reconnect. And so um and it doesn't have to be a trip. I mean, it can be you know a date, a date night, or it could be um, you know, whatever, and but it has to be intentional, yeah. And um and it just and again, just thinking about my mentor as far as you know, some of the things he's he's told me, is like everything can can be falling down around you except for your marriage. Wow, except for your wow.

SPEAKER_04 48:04

I think someone else needs to, I think you need to say that again. I think people need to hear that.

SPEAKER_05 48:08

Yeah, no, and I I I think it it's it's a lesson that I think that um you know as as an entrepreneur, because you are driven, you are man, I'm willing to do whatever. I'm I'm I'm I I'm into this, and and it can take over your life. Yeah, but everything can can absolutely be falling down around you, but it cannot be your marriage.

SPEAKER_01 48:32

Yeah, it cannot be your family.

SPEAKER_05 48:33

Because it's at the end of the day, it's not worth giving up for.

SPEAKER_04 48:36

Yeah, so many I mean, I think that it's not just business owners who can, you know, lose so much, but have a really great business. I mean, and that could happen anyone, but I think business owners can experience that of oh, but my business is doing so well, but at the sacrifice of what?

SPEAKER_05 48:55

Yeah. Yeah, no, it's it and it is. It's you know, I don't know if there's a you know, because you hear like a work-life balance, right? Yeah, and I I would say and Abby may have a different response, but I think that that that's seasonal because there's different times that we know we have to devote you know more energy towards one particular place. And uh we know if we're gonna go into a busy season with the kids, you know, and so um we know that we have to kind of give and take a little bit in terms of our schedules, in terms of our our efforts, um in terms of you know, whatever that we're doing to um invest in the business. And um and so with I would just say give yourself a lot of grace. And that's the thing that I've learned probably primarily uh within our marriage is is making sure that you're giving yourself grace other other partner, yeah. And so um, because that's what it takes, man. You've got to be humble, yeah. Um within your marriage, and you you've got to understand that you know no one has it figured out, and this is a work in progress.

SPEAKER_00 50:11

I would say starting a business with your partner, especially when you have two partners who lead differently. One of the hardest things you can do.

SPEAKER_04 50:20

How do you feel like you lead differently? Is it just the strength, like your natural giftings?

SPEAKER_00 50:26

Yes. And I think we both want to go in and take charge, and you can't you you can't do that, especially when you have a staff and um you're trying to make decisions. So I think much like a marriage, you have to realize that sometimes someone is gonna have to be giving 80%, the other person's gonna have to be giving 20%. Um, but yeah, I mean, it's it's down to how we even make decisions. I am more of a risk taker. He wants to talk through things. I think sometimes when you delay making a decision, you miss out on opportunities, he doesn't feel that way. And so it just causes that sort of frustration. So we want to learn.

SPEAKER_04 51:07

But I think that all of I know we use the word balance a lot, but I think that tension is actually a better word because it it does have give and take. Yeah. And so it's not gonna be perfectly balanced. Nothing like work life isn't perfectly balanced, but it's like that pull, that push and pull. Yeah, that, yeah.

SPEAKER_05 51:24

No, I I would and here's what's what's really funny because uh, you know, we've we've been asked that question before, right? And and I absolutely think, and I believe this 100%, that she and I could be making like working on the same decision, and I think that we would come to the same conclusion, but the way we got there was like way different. Yeah, so you know, um, our approach, you know, is is completely different in a lot of ways. But I'm also you know, I I do like to think deeply about those decisions. I like to think, okay, what's um you know, plan A, B, you know, even C type of situation, and so but always be ready to to act when when necessary as well. So again, not not allowing that to really you know paralyze you um to cause inaction, um, but um always be willing to kind of be working towards it. Um where her approach sometimes is ready, you know, shoot aim.

SPEAKER_01 52:27

Yeah, yeah. That's a little different, you know.

SPEAKER_05 52:30

Um you know, that's a little different than in how that we come to this schick.

SPEAKER_04 52:36

Well, I think it's good. But it is good to have both voices to slow down those that might jump the gun and to speed up those that might just be stuck in the paralysis, or what you we called it paralysis of analysis. But I I think that always it's good to have all your options on the table because sometimes we feel as a business owner, you can there's times where you are made to feel like you're backed in a corner and you're like, well, I don't have a choice. I have to do this, or I have to pay for that, or I have to hire that. But whenever you get all your options on the table, then you can make a better decision because you're like, okay, I'm I don't have to do this. It it's an option. And so I think that slowing down because I tend to be the same way. I tend to kind of be like, okay, let's just do this. So it's good to have that slow down moment. But so if you were to go back and give one piece of advice for yourself when you were first starting Divine at almost five years in, what would that be?

SPEAKER_00 53:35

I think one of the things I would say is this is gonna look completely different than you think it's gonna look. Yeah, your your successes sometimes are gonna be big and sometimes they're gonna be small wins, and you have to celebrate that just as big as those really big wins. Yeah. And so um you gotta hang on because there's gonna be some really hard times through this, and that's okay.

SPEAKER_05 53:57

Um yeah, yeah, that well, my of course, like I've been, my my answer is gonna be a little bit lengthy because um I think there's so much to this, right? Um I even like just kind of put myself because even though it's five years ago, I can I can go back there very, very easily. And so um I've already said it, but it's there's been such a difference between who I am and how I I I go about things now than what I was then. But I would say keep showing up. Keep showing up. The small things that you do consistently are the things that create big change down the line.

SPEAKER_04 54:43

So good.

SPEAKER_05 54:44

And so even if it's one percent, and I and I actually kind of have like this unspoken kind of mantra or whatever you want to say, is that my goal every day is to be one percent better than I was yesterday. And I think that um um atomic habits, you know, comes to you know, the book Atomic Habits by um James Clear. I think that that has been kind of you know, really um really it's a book that I would recommend, you know, to anyone that that is um interested in in being an entrepreneur. But um, and then give yourself a break. Don't be too tough on yourself. You know, it's hard enough, you know, and and um celebrate the small things, celebrate the small victories, um because there's plenty of of reasons, you know, to to be down on yourself, um, because you do see so much um change um and you you see things from a little different perspective. Um but celebrate the small victories, um give yourself a ton of grace, um, be willing to show up um and and just keep moving forward and trusting God. I mean that's the the kind of the the the main thing.

SPEAKER_04 56:02

Yeah, so I guess I I didn't really connect this, but since we're about to celebrate five years, what what is on the horizons for divine? What are things that you see coming down the line that you can share?

SPEAKER_00 56:15

Yeah, no, um so let me well I will say the industry that we're in, you have always got to be changing. Nothing stays the same. Healthcare, wellness, all of that. And there's so many different things that play such a part in that. And so I think for us it's always making sure that we are aware um of those sorts of things and pivoting to where um things are going. So I think we have things we would like to happen, goals we would like to happen, but at the end of the day, we can't really predict kind of where some of this stuff is headed. But um, I don't know what you were gonna add to that.

SPEAKER_05 56:53

Yeah, no, um, a couple of different things actually. Um so two really quick points that I would also recommend is you know, you talk about investing and you talk about being a good steward of you know the company's money, the business money, you know, everything, and and and you know, that as a leader is super important. Always invest in yourself. Okay, and so the reason why I bring it up now is is even if you have felt that you've reached the pinnacle, that you've obtained every goal that you've ever you know set within the company, always be learning. And all and whether that is is attending you know a business conference, if it is hiring someone, you know, to uh look into your business and say, okay, this is where I see that there these are some areas that you really need to work on. Um and so um, and whenever I say that, I mean set aside money, yeah. Set aside money to invest in yourself as a leader so that you can come back and be able to have a clearer vision for your company and where you're going. Um and even you know, going back to your earlier question of what did that look like then versus now, allowing myself to think in those big, big thoughts, big, big goals, those things that are just crazy to kind of even consider or think about, and and being okay with it, and just you know, I think you have to be that kind of type of visionary, yeah, um, or you don't leave yourself in your room to grow. And so um, I know it's a long answer to a short question, but you know, where I see us going um is I do sell see us scaling. Um, we do have some very um uh specific goals that we want to see. Um we we do have some other projects that I I won't name just yet, um, that uh we're working on that allows um allows divine to be a little bit diversified and um allows a little bit of protection in terms of not just having all of our eggs in one basket, so to speak. And so uh really working towards that and um it does kind of allow us to feel re-energized, you know, because these are new ideas, new things, and and you know, as Abby mentioned, always having to make sure that you are thinking two and three steps down the line. Yeah, and uh and whether those are goals that are are um you know just patient number, you know, goals, or it is a goal of hey, we're gonna have another you know, brick and mortar in in another location, yeah. Whatever it might be. And so um I think you always have those those things that are you know the the one year, five year, ten year goals, and um and always being kind of clear as to where you're going.

SPEAKER_04 59:53

And they're good. They're good to it's a good target to have. Why not put it at a you know, by the time we're five years old or whatever, it's a good target.

SPEAKER_02 1:00:00

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_04 1:00:01

So one question I always like to ask as our as we wrap up is what is one thing you don't have fully figured out, but you're building through anyway? Because that's the truth. We're always building.

SPEAKER_05 1:00:15

I'll let you answer that one. Um, I think that um there are areas and and there's numerous that come to mind just as we kind of think through this, but um there are and they're more personal actually, as far as like where where I I'm I'm kind of wanting to go. Um but I I I want to be a better communicator. I want to be a um, you know, personally I want to be more on top of things and and really learning um continuing to learn, you know, what that looks like to be a business owner and um and being able to replicate that and being able to you know teach someone that's coming behind me. And and what I would say too is you know, for anyone listening that has like that inkling of an of a desire to open their own business, go for it. Go for it. Because I I would rather, and this was me personally, I would rather have started and fallen on my face than get 10 years down the line and say, I wish I would have.

SPEAKER_04 1:01:26

Right. I mean, can you even imagine if you were still in primary care right now?

SPEAKER_05 1:01:32

No, no.

SPEAKER_02 1:01:33

We ask ourselves that question sometimes.

SPEAKER_05 1:01:36

We think, yeah, we we think about that, and it and I still get those pinch pay moments. Yeah. Even now, five years down the road, I'm like, is this really is this real? Yeah you know, and um, and I think too, it was because that I never allowed myself to think in in such big and this is and I have to say this because um this is where Abby has really, really helped me, you know, and she's allowed me to think in these just big, big um ways, and uh and and provided me the space, you know, to be able to do that. And uh so it truly has just kind of allowed me to um to just kind of step right into that. Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 1:02:17

So without yeah, it might sound like cliche, but it goes back to what we've probably heard since we were kids of dream big.

SPEAKER_00 1:02:24

Yeah, yeah, yeah. So for sure. But you hear that and you don't realize what that actually looks like in everyday life, right? You know, that you have to make those hard decisions every single day. Um, and sometimes you have to sit in those really uncomfortable moments, but on the other side of that, there's these really beautiful things that you get to experience that you never thought you would be a part of. Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 1:02:48

Yeah. So go ahead and tell us where, if someone's looking to connect with the vine, find out more about the vine, where can they find you all online or in person, I guess, too. Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 1:02:59

Yep. So uh we're on all the socials, you know, um, Facebook, and then we we have um uh kind of you know that something that's coming, you know, like I said, is that if there are going to be kind of some other things that are coming that stay tuned, exactly, exactly.

SPEAKER_00 1:03:17

Follow us if you don't, yeah.

SPEAKER_05 1:03:19

That hook out there, you know, just to see if you'll nibble. But um, and then you know, you can call the clinic um if you're in the state of Oklahoma. Um telehealth is always available. We are, you know, we do have actually a brick and mortar um in here in Sepulpa, downtown Sepulpa. Um, they can call us at 918-347-9022 uh to make an appointment, or you can go um to our website as well, um divinehealth um.live, and um and schedule appointment there too. Or just go and and if you're curious, curious as to all the things that we offer, um you know you can go to our website. Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 1:03:56

Yeah, and it'll be linked too. So be sure to check them out. But that is it for this session of the back office. If this conversation gave you clarity, a new angle, or even just the reminder that you're not the only one navigating this, then it did its job. Take what's useful, apply it, move on it, because no one has it fully figured out, but we are building anyway. And if you found it valuable, share it with another operator who is also building. And you can always hang out with us in between sessions at Signify Marketing Social. I'm Delena Dillon, and we will see you back here next time.