The Emotional Side of Entrepreneurship

Entrepreneurship is often talked about strategically.

Growth. Revenue. Marketing. Leadership.

But what about the emotional side of building a business?

In this episode of The Back Office, Dalayna Dillon sits down with Ashley Beers, Licensed Professional Counselor and owner of Anchored in Hope Therapy, for a conversation about the realities business owners often carry behind the scenes.

Together, they discuss the emotional weight of entrepreneurship, burnout, identity, pressure, leadership, and the challenges that come with trying to build something meaningful while still taking care of yourself.

Ashley also shares the story behind Anchored in Hope Therapy, lessons she’s learned while building her practice, and how entrepreneurship has evolved differently than she originally imagined.

This episode explores:

• Why business owners often tie identity to success
• The emotional exhaustion many entrepreneurs quietly experience
• Boundaries, balance, and sustainable leadership
• Why so many leaders struggle to ask for help
• And what resilience actually looks like in real life

This conversation is honest, thoughtful, and deeply relevant for anyone carrying the pressure of building something while trying not to lose themselves in the process.

Because business ownership affects more than strategy. It affects people. No one has it fully figured out. But we’re building anyway.

Show Notes

Guest: Ashley Beers 

Business: Anchored in Hope Therapy

Ashley Beers is a Licensed Professional Counselor and the owner of Anchored in Hope Therapy, a client-centered and family-focused therapy practice committed to creating a safe and supportive environment for healing, growth, and emotional wellness.

Anchored in Hope Therapy is built on the principles of compassion, professional excellence, continuous improvement, hope and healing, client-centered care, and family-focused practices. Through counseling and coaching services, Ashley and her team help individuals and families navigate challenges while prioritizing emotional health and sustainable growth.

In this episode, Ashley brings both the perspective of a mental health professional and a business owner to a conversation centered on the emotional realities of entrepreneurship and leadership.

In This Episode, We Cover:

• Ashley’s journey into counseling and entrepreneurship
• The story behind Anchored in Hope Therapy
• Lessons learned while building and growing a therapy practice
• The emotional pressure business owners carry
• Burnout and emotional exhaustion in entrepreneurship
• Why entrepreneurs often tie identity to business success
• Leadership, boundaries, and emotional sustainability
• The isolation many business owners experience
• Why asking for help can feel difficult for leaders
• What healthy leadership actually looks like
• The emotional realities people don’t talk about enough
• Resilience, healing, and long-term sustainability in business
• What Ashley is still learning as both a counselor and entrepreneur

Find her online at:

https://www.anchoredinhopetherapy.com/

About The Back Office

Hosted by Dalayna Dillon
Founder & Creative Director of Signify Marketing

The Back Office invites listeners into honest conversations about marketing, growth, leadership, and the real decisions shaping active businesses.

Facebook/Instagram: @signifymarketingsocial 

www.signifymarketing.social

Transcript

SPEAKER_02 0:39

And in this episode, we're talking about not only building a therapy practice, which we have done but also the emotional realities of entrepreneurship that we can all relate to. So the pressure, the pivot, the burnout, hello, identity, and resilience that business owners often experience behind the scenes. So actually, thank you for being here today. Yes, yes, yes. Okay, so you have, I mean, this year, this is not your first rodeo. No, you've been around being in Anchored in Hope, but also outside of that for a while. So give us a little bit of the backstory of Anchored in Hope, where you've been, where you are, and then we'll get into where you're going.

SPEAKER_03 1:20

But okay. I founded Anchored in Hope in 2016. Yes. So we hit our 10-year anniversary this February. So it's and um I would say we've we started small. I think we had three clinicians at that point. Um, and we have been in three different buildings now, three locations, and um now we have 16 therapists. Wow. Um, so yeah, we you know, from small beginnings come great things.

SPEAKER_02 1:57

So from day one, you had multiple therapists. So what did you is that how you knew you wanted to present this business? Like you because sometimes people will start off on their own and then it kind of evolves. But from day one, you knew you wanted to build a center, a place.

SPEAKER_03 2:15

Yes. So my first location was I think five total offices. So we knew at that point in time, I knew I, you know, we wanted to be a presence and have multiple therapists. Um it kind of took off quicker than I expected. Yeah. So it's a good feeling, right? So we kind of grew out of that building before we grew out of the least. Oh my god. So um, you know, it's been a process of making it work, the sharing and and doing things like that. But yeah, I would say from the beginning, it was a group practice uh goal for sure.

SPEAKER_02 3:03

Yeah. Well, was there any point? Because I I've heard that sometimes what in growing, there's like certain thresholds. So I feel like there might be even that whenever it came to adding to your team. Was there a certain point where it's like you kind of jumped up to this number as far as therapists goes? And then there might have been certain points along the way that really caused some shifts, you know, because like you said, office sharing, all these kinds of things. Was there some of those, I guess, thresholds of like, okay, when we hit this many therapists, we had to really make some shifts because the team's growing, expanding?

SPEAKER_03 3:39

Yeah, I'm, you know, I'm trying to think back because there were just a lot of I always say that business ownership is it's not linear, right? Yeah, it's a spectrum. Yeah. And sometimes that spectrum is an explosion, and sometimes that spectrum is stagnant. So um, so within it, I'm trying, you know, I'm trying to go back in my head and remember, but I do know that, you know, when we were growing out of the first building, we I had the goal of getting the next building to be just a little bigger than we needed. Yeah. Um, and due to where we were supposed to go, the sell of that whole complex, that lease wasn't executed. We had like four weeks to find something. Oh my goodness. So um no pressure. Yeah. You also have to look at things like what's important for um helping profession or any market really is what are what are the comparables, what are the comps um for us. We built insurance, what's the zip codes, what what zip codes are flooded, what zip codes are not, um, and looking at where where do we want to be. And we had already uh created a really healthy footprint in South Tulsa. So I knew I wanted to stay in South Tulsa. Um, so the our second location was we went into it knowing it was a temporary location. We made it work, but we got to the point where it was um not working anymore. And I didn't want to enter into another lease or another building that we were just gonna then have to grow out of again. I wanted to find somewhere that we could call home.

SPEAKER_02 5:39

Yeah. Um, and that's how we and that's yeah, this is definitely home. Like this space is beautiful. If you are in Tulsa, explain exactly where you are now because this building is gorgeous. The space, I mean, you just like being here, it's beautiful.

SPEAKER_03 5:54

So we are in six B Zipcode, South Tulsa, 126th Memorial-ish. Um, I we're in it's a called South Memorial Business Park. Yeah, there's a lot of buildings being built in this area right now. Um, but this building in particular, I think was the second building. Oh, yeah, yeah. It was one of the OGs. Yeah. And we just took the whole building. Oh, um, you know, it's been nice to have just our own speech.

SPEAKER_02 6:30

Yeah, yeah. Um, and I you could you obviously know the market better than I do, but from an outside perspective and just my being living in Bixby, there's not a huge, it's it's not a very saturated with therapy in Bixby. Like I think people have to go to Tulsa a lot of times to get a therapy center type thing.

SPEAKER_03 6:53

It's growing. And I think there are a lot of smaller practitioners that work within Bixby. Um, and there's a lot of um second or third, like extended locations. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Um in Bixby. Uh, I like Bixby because the 74008 area code was one that I was going for for specific credentialing. And it also puts us in um, so like being native, um, it puts us still within the Creek, yeah. Creek rule. So, you know, it has opened up some availability within different markets for uh insurance and contracts.

SPEAKER_02 7:44

Yeah. Yeah. And these are all things that you have to be thinking about whenever you're having a therapy center. Um, also, so I don't know if you included two people two people-ish in your count of therapists, but you have some bonus therapists that are newer to the I mean they're actually not that new now, but I feel like people are still finding out about our furry therapists. Yes. So we have two sloths, um, like animals, yeah, right.

SPEAKER_03 8:15

Yeah, people are like, um, so how did you get to this point? And I always say, this is what ADHD looks like, right? Um, so um having uh been in having some connections within exotics and so in high school um volunteering at Safari Jove, meeting people meeting some people and then through college did some transportation for like owner surrenders or compensations. Um so I, you know, was notified um just through a conversation that these two sloths, so Shiloh was compensated from a non-fermented breeder. They went to a facility for their 30-day quarantine and vet care. And then I um and having a conversation with a friend found out about them. And I had just had to retire my therapy dog, Bernice Fountain Dog, because she um just she has arthritis and she's 10, yeah, at 130 pounds getting cut in and out of the car is impossible.

SPEAKER_02 9:30

Well, but so you had therapy animals before. Right, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 9:33

And I was like, well, I kind of want to so beneficial, but I didn't want to, you know, get another dog to replace Nadia. So my ADHD brain was like, oh, it would be fun too. Um sloths are they're way it's way more amazing than I could have ever even dreamed or expected. They are um we have to respect their needs. So they um they are actually adopted under my nonprofit. And then um we do some encounters, but they're pretty limited out of respect for the animals' needs. But any encounters go to um our scholarship fund. And the scholarship fund is a mental health scholarship fund through and during code, where if um someone has a really high deductible or their insurance is um lapsed, they can apply for uh it works kind of like an EAP. They can apply for sessions to be covered by the scholarship fund. Yeah, yeah. Um it works that way, but yeah. The sloths are pretty amazing in in the sense that they really do elicit calm. They make you slow down. You have to, they're so slow. Yeah, they make you regulate yourself. Yeah, they um help us learn body awareness, uh boundaries, mindful eating, yeah, uh mindfulness. And um very true. Yeah, and Shiloh's been great with trauma recovery.

SPEAKER_02 11:03

So I think that's true because even just seeing them, I think because their pace is slow, it causes yes, everything inside you to be like pause, slow down.

SPEAKER_03 11:14

Yeah. I named Shiloh Shiloh because I can explain to kids she's shy, so we have to go low, yeah, slow. Yeah. Um, and Simon is Simon for Simon says. Um, so when we're working, let's say we're we're working with the kiddo on self-awareness and uh regulation, then we're able to really um get those skills displayed, right? We can implement them and practice them in with the sloths. And hey, like where's our voice tone? Okay, where's our body movement? Since we have to act like a sloth, yeah. Yeah, so it's been kind of so fun.

SPEAKER_02 11:53

Yeah, you are a licensed, get me the professional counselor. Is that that's your that's the right credentials, right? So when you went through all that process to get the licensing, was it immediate that you knew that you wanted to be an entrepreneur and a business owner? No, how did that evolve? Like, how did that come about?

SPEAKER_03 12:15

I think everybody, you know, we all come out of school going, Wendy am I gonna have a private practice? And we look at it like it's this big prestigious thing, and then you get into it, you're like, holy crap, what was I thinking? Yeah. Um, so I worked in the community. I actually was employed by Tulsa Public Schools and worked within the school district for almost a decade. Um, and then did community mental health. And um that I continually felt frustrated that I did not have the autonomy to serve my clients in a way that I felt was with the most fidelity. Yeah. Because unless it's billable or unless it brings you productivity, um, you know, sometimes other agencies, clinics, whatever, you know, they're not in big support of you going to an IEP meeting for your client unless it's billable, right? Um, and then there's the productivity monster that's constantly breathing down your neck. Um so I feel like a lot of community mental health therapists are really overworked. Oh yeah. Um in caseload. Um, and there's not a lot of niche opportunities. And then I felt frustrated because there was always an an ish a new initiative, right? Yes. Oh, well, now we're gonna do this. Oh, well, now we're gonna, and it's like, well, for you that's one paper. For me, it's one paper now on top of 30. So it just felt very entrapped, yeah, entrapping. Um, so I I got to the point where I was like, I don't want to work for the man anymore and wanted to create a place where it was clinician centered, you know. Um so uh that's kind of where Anchored and Hope came from. Um and then I was in a meeting and someone had a shirt on that was um uh where I have because it was you know the Hebrews 619 verse. And um and I was like anger and that's kind of where Anger it all came from. Yeah, it came from. But um, you know, I just wanted somewhere where clients could feel um welcome and um where they could feel like they were getting great services, uh, but in a personal way. Yeah. More personalized um care.

SPEAKER_02 15:15

Yeah. And it wasn't going off of initiatives and other agendas, but yes, what's best for them.

SPEAKER_03 15:20

Right. Like, oh, it's not billable.

SPEAKER_02 15:22

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 15:22

You know, oh that's not a billable code, or oh, that that, you know, that's not covered. So um, and and also where clinicians felt valued. I have worked several places where I, you know, have said that's not really ethical to my license. Yeah, right. Um, because there's been places where multiple, there's been multiple disciplinary so multiple license types. Yeah. I've been like, that's not really ethical to my license. And it's like, well, that's what we're doing. Yeah, yeah. So I just I kind of wanted a place where therapists could come and not have to worry about um someone not having their back. Yeah, and that way they can get the best care possible. Right.

SPEAKER_00 16:08

Right. So what has surprised you most about owning a business?

SPEAKER_03 16:15

Surprises at every turn, right? Yeah. Um, I don't know. I don't know what has surprised me most. Um because I think that it's all just a big worrying down. Yeah. Yeah. Um the predictability is difficult and challenging. And as soon as you think, it's kind of like parenting. Right? I mean, as soon as you think, yeah, I got this, you know, they enter into another developmental stage, yeah, like what just happened. Yeah. So I think that um it's it's difficult, especially in a helping profession when it's not just product sell, product sell, right? Um, there's so many layers to this business in particular, and it's not one that I would say even business consultants know well because it doesn't go off of a standard setup.

SPEAKER_00 17:21

Yeah. Have you tried to bring in people to speak consult and to speak into the business and found that it just wasn't?

SPEAKER_03 17:28

Um, I have a consultant that um helps me in the see the forest through the trees, yeah. In like the financial setup of the company. Yeah. But when you go to school, you're you're learning therapy. Yes. You're not learning business management. Um, and when you um step into this role, you know you know the provision of the the product or service, right? But you don't necessarily you're not necessarily good at the other things. Yeah. Like I just wanted to help people, right? Yeah. And now I'm, you know, um, especially like a practice like this. And so I I pay my therapist the most I can and keep very little margins for everything else, which means um, you know, pretty much I'm it yeah, for a lot of things. Yeah. So as far as like HR and accounting and landscaping and janitorial and content creation and social media and um payroll. Um, yeah, so CEO, CFO, like all of that is just one person. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 19:00

So um and so many people can relate to that though. Yeah, they they got into their business because they love what they do, right? But all of those other things are are essential. They're essential. They are essential.

SPEAKER_03 19:14

And what stints, I think, is um, and it's like if you don't do it well, then you know, hire someone who does. But when you're first starting out, you know, your your margins are for operating costs don't allow for that sometimes. So you really do have to learn it, and sometimes you learn it well, right, because you're trying to teach yourself. Um, and so you there's a lot of growth.

SPEAKER_02 19:47

Yeah, but you figure it out, and it's like you said, it's learning curves. You didn't know it until you know it, and then you move on from there.

SPEAKER_03 19:55

Yeah, and I think that's where networking is really beneficial. Yes, yes, yes, because you might not be able to hire that position, but you can go to a networking group and learn. Yeah. You know, learn from the people who do. Uh so yeah, networking in the community and um and really just kind of diving in and learning those things.

SPEAKER_02 20:17

Yeah, and not being afraid to ask for help when you need it.

unknown 20:20

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 20:20

Um, what lessons have you learned about leadership? Because you do have a big team. Yes.

SPEAKER_05 20:26

Um, the leadership lessons have been um they have been a bittersweet lesson, I would say.

SPEAKER_03 20:42

I would say in the beginning, you know, when you're small, you're kind of all there, right? Yeah. Um, and as you grow, I have had to learn the importance of boundaries um and the importance of being available to my team and being personable with my team, uh, but not being friends. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 21:08

Well, uh sadly, I think that that's it you you think that that you can't not that you can't be friendly, right? But yes, there there are levels because while they just get to be themselves, you're you're switching between hats.

SPEAKER_03 21:22

Yes. Yeah. And so then when it comes to, you know, meeting to um talk hard topics or address an issue, um it it becomes more difficult. Yeah. And um I am someone who does not relish in conflict.

unknown 21:51

What?

SPEAKER_03 21:52

Or like to have hard conversations. So I am one of those that typically is like, oh, I'll just do it. Yeah. Yeah. Right. Um can I take on too much and then it's not good for anyone. So at that point I think I think the biggest thing in leadership and in in the position of leadership is to the boundaries of um friendliness and person being personal. I and the the difficult thing too is like all for us. We are therapists at heart and and in compassion. So there's a lot of times where uh we've gone through just as a business from a business standpoint, just really difficult situations. And I've taken on a lot of personal sacrifice because when you are responsible for the livelihood of other people, yeah, and you care about those people deeply, it's not just business, right? It is personal, and um I think that the line there is so difficult of like how much sacrifice of myself do I give for others, yeah, and like what's the boundary of being able to just step back from this, right? So I think that's difficult as well. Yeah. So learning those boundaries with people, but also learning the boundary of yourself because this when you are a business owner, you've put so much into that business, right? So you when you're building it, it's like the focus. I call it, you know, I have three kids, but I call this my business baby. Yes, anchored in hope is known as my business baby. So I think that it does become a part of who you are uh because it's so much of so many roles that you play, right? So it is it becomes enmeshed and entwined into your um your purpose and identity. Um, I mean, like I always say, like it sits at your dinner table with you. Yep. It uh is there in your thoughts at 2 a.m. When you're in the shower, you're thinking of it. So um it's so much a part of all of that that it's really it can be really difficult to say or for yourself to define a boundary of this is personal time, this is family time, this is business time because you know, uh pipe break or the technology not working, or whatever it might be that is happening here at the building does not respect my family. No, does not respect that I'm on vacation. Nope, that's when it's gonna happen. Yeah, it's just right when you leave the state. It's true. Um so none of that is going to respect this. You have to come up with ways that that you can compartmentalize. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 25:24

Well, and I sounds like it's not more of like figuring out, it's just more of a constant tension you have to carry. Of always like there's you're always gonna be pulled in one way or another, whether it's personal family business, but just keeping that tension and knowing that it's there.

SPEAKER_03 25:41

Yeah, I think that there are times where I just wish I was one of my clinicians. Oh, yeah, yeah. You're like, I wish I could just show up, do my work, and go. Do my note, do my note, go home and get paid. Yeah. Um, so yeah, I mean, there is you carry a lot, and I don't I you know, that's where I think the saying it's only at the top.

SPEAKER_02 26:11

Yeah, literally, I was thinking of that that statement, like you're talking.

SPEAKER_03 26:16

Because it is. I mean, nobody is gonna get it. I don't want anybody to have to get it. That's the privilege. Yeah, it's a privilege of working for someone else, right? And that's the privilege of not owning your own company. Yeah. Um, there are benefits that come from owning your own company. But it's a lot, or I mean, but it is, it's a lot, it's a lot, you know, especially when you are wearing so many hats and you are responsible for so many things, and then you have a life also, right? Like you have kids, you have your you know, uh family that you're coping and dealing with. And then on top of all of that, if you carry a caseload, yeah, um, so that you have clients, yes, client care. And there's sometimes that you know, um I am not available for something that might come up because I'm in a session. Right. So um that's where delegating and having uh a couple roles that I have now uh has been amazingly helpful, and that is um I have a clinical need and she handles a lot of the staff needs in that way. And it's allowed me to step back, and I will say I have stepped back from roles that I enjoyed.

SPEAKER_05 27:51

Yeah, yeah. Like I don't like I don't like the hard stuff.

SPEAKER_03 27:58

I want to be down in the lunchroom and being like, yeah, you know, um that's where that's where my dopamine is, right? In the socializing and the doing for people. But I have had to learn like no one else is gonna do the hard roles. Yeah. So it's it's it's better to have someone that they can go to for those things that can be personable and not have to do the other role, the hard part. Yeah, right. So where they can go to get support without that person also having to be, well, let me give you support, but also we need to we need to talk about this in a you know, bigger way. Yeah. So I think it's been um developing and that that position was developed from a learning situation, yeah. Of you know, where I've I had to say I have to separate myself from being both yes, the good guy and the bad guy.

SPEAKER_02 29:03

Yes, yeah. You don't have someone else to partner with you on that. Yeah. Well, I think, but that's that's true. I mean, you sometimes you don't know the needs until they show themselves and make themselves obvious, and then you can that isn't growth, you know.

SPEAKER_03 29:17

I think that it became like we were small and then had these situations, and then we hit a growth point, like you said, a threshold where I was like, okay, there are a lot more personalities to manage here, and there are some you know, challenges, new challenges to manage here, and I need to take a step back from the closeness of my team. Yeah, and I don't I don't want to say that to sound like like I'm right over here, the team is there. Like I still enjoy my team, I'm still integrated within my team, I'm still personable with my team, but it's work-related. Um, and then you know, beyond that, like we we aren't afraid to bring faith within this building, right? So um I have team members that have prayed for me, I have prayed for team members. So I have I feel like I I have a vulnerability with them, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 30:25

Um, but I don't have an overshare, yeah, or it's really hard to, and I think that probably other business owners get in this predicament where they try to, you know, share, to, you know, relate and to level with people of like, you know, I'm a human too, but it can it can bite you in in the behind.

SPEAKER_03 30:50

Yeah, so I mean, just what comes to mind as an example of what I mean is um at our old location we had a restaurant just right across the parking lot. And so I would go to lunch with people who were available, and we did that often. And to me, it was seen as um connection time, yeah. And I think to team members who couldn't go or didn't want to go, it was seen as favoritism. Um or if there was a you know something that had to be done, it was well this person's gonna be this person's going to, you know, uh receive more approval or you know, favoritism. Yeah um because of that. So it's like it's like, do I want to go to lunch with people? Absolutely, yeah. But I have learned like sometimes you can encourage that and you should encourage that within your team. Yeah. But like unless all can be there, it's hard. It's hard. Yeah um because um the way that it's perceived by others, even though you know it wasn't implemented in that way, the way that it can be perceived. And cut so it kind of becomes this, I feel like business. Um sometimes within leadership, what you feel is you're darned if you do, and you're darned if you don't. Yeah. And so what you have to do is make sure that you are trying to make the best decision for the company. Yeah. And um focusing on the company as a whole instead of on one individual.

SPEAKER_02 32:30

Which is hard because again, like you said, you know these people, you know their stories, like you care for them. But at the end of the day, you do have to you have to keep that in mind. You have to be thinking of the bigger picture. Um, so business ownership is often talked about strategically, but not emotionally. But obviously, we're humans. We got a lot of emotions we're bringing into it, especially in this era, in this uh in this field. But what emotional struggles do you see business owners commonly face? I know you're out talking with other business owners as well, just different environments.

SPEAKER_03 33:06

I think it's burnout, yes, and just feeling constantly overwhelmed. I think business owners just carry more cortisol. Well, with them because there is a lot on the line for us, right? So, but there's a lot, there's just a lot to every little thing. Yeah, I feel like I don't know how to describe it. It's like you go and you've just worked all day, but then you look at your to-do list and you're like, I didn't get anything done. Didn't touch it. Like, how was I so busy all day? And what you think you're gonna go in for today, it's like, okay, today I'm gonna go in and I'm gonna tackle these things, but none of that, you know, ends up ends up being tackled. So I think it's um just feeling emotionally overloaded, carrying the responsibility for everything, like the people, the payroll, the outcomes, the reputation. Um, and you you know, um, all the hats that you have to wear for that. Yeah. Um, and then just never feeling or rarely, I should probably say rarely feeling accomplished. Yeah. Like the job is not done. Yeah. Like yeah, and I think that what you know, the double-edged sword there is for a lot of us, we are ADHD. A lot of entrepreneurs entrepreneurs are AD. Yeah, ADHD. And so we really have to manage our love for shiny things. Yes, yes, like the distraction, yeah, right, yeah. Um, and and what needs to get done. So um, you know, uh, I think that within that what I mean is we are high achieving people who have pretty high expectations. And I think that maybe what one person can call good, yeah, like, oh, that's good. We are very much on to the next thing. Right. So maybe we never feel accomplished or achieved because we're always setting something else.

SPEAKER_02 35:36

Yeah, you've got to have your eyes on the horizon.

SPEAKER_03 35:38

Right, yeah. Um, so in that, in that sense, there's a lot of burnout, like we're exhausted because um I don't know if my brain is ever quiet about what needs to happen within the business or what it what its needs are, or um, what I need to do, what I didn't do, what I need to follow up with, yeah. Um you know, that kind of thing. So and then I think um um we trouble we struggle with um resting without guilt.

SPEAKER_02 36:16

Right. Yeah, I mean maybe not everyone does, but I know I can relate to that. Like, can I sit here? Can I actually like turn it off?

SPEAKER_03 36:25

Right, yeah, yeah. Or I should be. I think I say we should on ourselves. Oh yeah. I know. Well, it's true. I think should. It's true though, but yeah, like we totally should on ourselves. Like, well, I should be doing this, I should be doing that. Um, and our self-care is low. And I think that when we say self-care because people think pampering, right? Like, I don't get pampered. You like I my nails are not done, my toes are not done. I don't know when the last time my hair was trimmed. Okay, like there's not that happening, but we need self-care in the sense of daily habits, right? That we are able to routinely compartmentalize and say it's okay for me not to have my phone on for this hour. Yeah, or it's okay for me to you know set this this boundary here, or take a day off. Yeah. What is that? No, God forbid. God forbid. Then your inbox, like it's like yeah, like sometimes taking that day off is not worth it because then you have to keep catch up. But but yeah, I think that you know, resting without guilt or finding ways to um find your calm or center yourself is important, yeah, because when you are the deciding factor, the decision maker, do you really want that decision maker to be a hot mess all the time? You know, do we want the decision maker to be just constantly in survival mode? Yeah, no, we don't. We want a balanced, level-headed, rational decision maker. So find a way to do that for yourself.

SPEAKER_02 38:12

Yeah. Well, and you mentioned like how burnout is so common with business owners. Uh, and I think the hard thing about burnout is once you hit it, it's hard to come back. Like it's better it's it's more advantageous to see the signs and prevent yourself from getting there. Because I know for me, if I'm there, if I'm there, it's really hard to jump back, you know. So, what are some things that you think people could identify that are, hey, these are red flags, you're heading towards burnout, and you don't you can't be out of commission for three weeks, right?

SPEAKER_03 38:52

Um, you know, I think extra, like if you're extra irritable. So I feel like burnout, a sign for burnout for me is when I'm not finding joy in the things that I typically find joy in. Yeah. Or when I get a text or email or phone call from a work-related um colleague, and I go, yeah, you know, instead of like, hey, what's up? You know, so I feel like that for me is is a telltale sign of like you need to take some, you need to take a step back, sister. It's you are starting to not experience, you know, you're starting to be have negative, right negative feelings. And I also think that um negative judgments for yourself. So when you maybe when you start to notice that you're being ultra self-critical or having someone in your life as accountability, hey, you know what? Like it seems like you're being really critical on yourself. Like, where's your burnout level? Yeah, yeah. Where's your burnout level? Um, because that's kind of like when I'm like, I don't, I don't, I just don't even want to today. Yeah. I don't want to adult today. I don't want to adult today. Um, or you know, um just feeling like I you're all I it's balanced, right? So you're always gonna feel like I don't even know. Right, right. But it's like it's kind of like yeah, the pull, you know, when you're just feeling like that, and for me, it's like internal tenseness, yeah. Um, that's when I know I'm starting to feel overwhelmed. And then once my givea darn is busted, like it's so boosted. You know what I mean? Yeah. So it's like I have to intervene before I go, I don't even care anymore.

SPEAKER_02 40:59

Yeah, do whatever you want, burn it all down, whatever, careless children.

SPEAKER_03 41:04

I don't even care anymore. You know, uh, so yeah, I think you know, doing little things. I had to um so it's so silly and it's so small, but I had to buy different plugins, like the smell. Okay, yeah, I raised plugins for the office, then I do my home. Even though I love the smell, yeah, of like a particular one, I was associated. Smell is yeah, your strongest uh memory association. Yeah. So, you know, I I bought two different ones. That's an interesting one for work because you think I love the smell, I want it at my office. Right. But then your body goes, Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 41:48

Your body can't chill.

SPEAKER_03 41:50

Like it yeah, that's so interesting. So I mean, like little things like that, I tend to really just kind of distinguish. Um, hey, like I need space here. Yeah. Or communicating to my team, like, hey, I have three kiddos, one is special needs, like from the hours of this to this, I really need to be focused on them, you know. So, you know, that but that also means that then from 9 p.m. to 11 I'm working. Yeah. So um, I know I um have learned to schedule emails. Yes, I love that. I love that tool. In tech, yeah, because people will be like, why are you emailing me at 1 a.m.? I know.

SPEAKER_02 42:36

I'm like, don't judge me. Like, do not judge me.

SPEAKER_03 42:39

You don't have to, you really truly don't have to answer it at 1 a.m. It's just that's when I'm working, um, which isn't healthy, right? Like, so you know, chat GPT has actually helped me a little bit come up with some sort of routine, right? Like, yeah, which I I just gave it the hours, like from this hour to this hour, I have to do these things, and it was like, oh, you can here's here's a breakdown of your day. Well, there you go, right? Um that's awesome. So it's like I don't know if I will be able to focus on that, but it's going to help me at least not have to be up till 11. Or if you're up till midnight one, doing it this night, then give yourself a break. Yeah, don't do that every night, right? Right. Like sometimes that's needed, yes, but not all the time. Yeah, right. So you can't you have to put those boundaries on yourself. Yeah, because no one else is gonna put them on you. No, no, they are going to pull, yeah, and they are gonna squeeze that lemon, yes, and get you know, unfortunately. So you really, it's a lot. I would say business ownership has taught me more about myself than it has anything else. That's interesting. What are some things that it's taught you about yourself? Um, that I'm a people pleaser. You didn't think you were. For no, I knew I was, but like just to the max, to the max, like even in the sense of like leadership and and being able to um to I I kind of call it a bit of codependency and leadership, wanting your people to be happy, right? Yeah, so you sacrifice your own needs so that they are happy, and sometimes that's necessary, but sometimes it's out of codependency. And so I've really had to kind of check myself and go, okay, is this my monkey to be my circus? Or is this a monkey you created?

SPEAKER_01 44:35

Yeah. So good. That's so good. Because there's some people you could do everything and it's not gonna make them happy.

SPEAKER_03 44:42

No, no, you could put all the policies in place. This person doesn't like it. You you know, okay, well, let's let's problem solve around that. Yeah. Um, I've also learned delegation, which I'm not good at. Um, I am from a long line of women who just do it ourselves, right? So um I'm not very good at delegation, but I have learned to be um to ask for help, to accept help. And um I, you know, learned to recognize what you're not good at um so that you can put systems in place or people in place for that and focus on what you are good at because your business is gonna thrive when you are being utilized in the ways that you are created to um your strengths and your passions. Um, and the burnout comes in the things that you don't like to do. Yeah, I don't like accounting.

SPEAKER_02 45:50

You're like, let me just put it out there.

SPEAKER_03 45:52

Right, like it. Like, and I used to go three, four months without categorizing in my QuickBooks. So hiring a bookkeeper was like the best decision for me.

SPEAKER_02 46:04

I think you're the third person I've talked to recently that have said something along those lines of so someone that's helping them with those kind of tasks of like, why didn't I do that sooner? Right. Yeah, because I hate it.

SPEAKER_03 46:14

Yeah, yeah. Um, so like having someone who does that, um, it's like that's now time that I don't have to dedicate to something I don't like. That is just like for me. Yeah. So um, so I can use that time elsewhere. Yeah. So you know, there's a lot that is um there's a lot of learning within it. Um learning about yourself and and what what you want to prioritize. Yeah. Yeah. Um and then how you handle how you handle stress and how you handle the the valleys as well as the mountains, right? Like how you handle hardships and how how flexible you are and able to say, well, we tried it, it's not working. Or hey, like I had that amazing idea. Do you remember when I like told you it was gonna be amazing? It's not amazing, it's not working.

SPEAKER_00 47:22

It's not working.

SPEAKER_03 47:22

We're gonna pivot. Um, and and kind of knowing when and how to do that. Yeah. Um, I think that as much as you want to, as much as you want something to work, you have to recognize what it's not.

SPEAKER_02 47:38

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 47:39

Yeah. And that can be hard.

SPEAKER_02 47:40

That's hard.

SPEAKER_03 47:41

That's super hard, especially when you're like, well, maybe if maybe if or it's it's only because or it just didn't work because of this. And it's like, it's not working. Like at what point in time do you pull plug on that? Yeah. So um, yeah, I think just self-awareness. Self-awareness. That is that's very true.

SPEAKER_02 48:01

We all need more of that. Um, what is what does healing look like for an overwhelmed business owner? Therapy? Kind of shameless plug, but also real.

SPEAKER_03 48:14

Um so I have some have you ever heard of Renee Brown? Yes. Okay. Yes. I have some of her quotes in front of me just because I love her and she has the book Daring to Lead, which is all about leadership vulnerability. Um it says vulnerability is not winning or losing, it's having the courage to show up when you can't control the outcome. Yeah, right.

SPEAKER_05 48:42

So for me, um it's staying real and staying grounded and um leaning on support and learning to say no have been you know really big for me.

SPEAKER_03 49:10

Um because I'm a yes. People be with a pleaser. Yeah, or you just out of compassion and desire, you just want to meet a need. Yeah. And I think that especially, you know, for those who have you know this real tr spiritual gift of encouragement, you know, you want to meet a need. And so you just compassionately have a desire to help and to serve. But when that helping and serving is at the sacrifice of something, right, right, you have to weigh that. And so there are times where I've been like, you know what, my calendar can't take one more thing. Yeah, I really can't. Like, if it if I take on one more thing, I'm gonna go check myself in and get evaluated for sanity, right? Um, because I don't know how many times have you heard how do you get it all done? Yeah, you're how do you talk it all? What do you thought? How do you do it all? I don't know how you do it all. I'm like, there's not an option, yeah, for not, yeah. Right. So you kind of get in this role of like, I can do all things, but you don't have to. No. So learning to say no um and prioritizing the things that your energy does need to go towards has been important. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 50:32

Well and I've heard it said many times when you're saying yes to one thing, you are saying no to something else. So if the people pleaser part of you is like, I can just say yes. You're you are saying no to someone or something, you just don't realize it. Yeah. Yeah. So what advice would you give business owners trying to carry everything alone?

SPEAKER_03 51:01

Um there's no rest of the category. Um it's it's really not for the faint of heart. But I would say don't.

SPEAKER_05 51:15

Yeah. Stop.

SPEAKER_03 51:18

Yeah, now stop now. At least in the sense of like, if you have to carry the business alone, that's fine. Right, right. But don't carry the emotional magnitude of it alone. Yeah. Like have a try, have a support system, have someone who gets it. And if you don't, get involved in, you know, um, the Tulsa area. Yeah, I say Tulsa Bong, but people don't know, but it's well business owner network group. Yeah, get in network um groups, yeah. Yeah, get in some kind of network groups, private practice owner groups, support groups of people who get it, or people who have been there and gone, okay, don't reinvent the wheel. Like I've been there and here's what we did, or here's a strategy for that, because you are rarely the first. Oh, a hundred percent. Yeah, we feel like it. We feel like it. Yeah. And and sometimes we feel alone. Yeah. Uh, but we're we're not, or we don't have to be. Right. It can be really difficult to have that vulnerability, right? Of like showing up and saying, I this isn't working, or I'm drowning, or this isn't everything that I thought it was going to be, and and and being able to allow yourself the vulnerability of acknowledging that and sharing that, then you get the support and the outcome can look better. You know, it's kind of like have you heard that?

SPEAKER_05 52:58

Uh what's it called? Story. Um, but it's like a guy's on a boat, right?

SPEAKER_03 53:11

Like a like uh he's on a boat by himself and yeah, and he's like sinking, and a guy comes along, someone comes along, yep, yep, yep, yep, and they're like, Hey, yeah, climb on board. And he's like, No, the Lord will save me. The Lord's will say me. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Um, it's kind of like that. Yeah, like you don't have to be in your boat. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Like Lao, allow people to to step in or see in. Sometimes what that's what I meant with my um financial advisor of like not being able to see the forest through the trees. Yeah. It's because we when I closed on this building, and it took everything to get this building. Yeah, right. Um so when I closed on this building that very day, our clearing house, which is who we send insurance claims through, um, was attacked with ransom, like a ransom attack. And so what happened was they cross the clearinghouse, so you could not send insurance claims, and insurance claims could not be paid to you. Oh my god. Oh my word. And for months we went without a way to be paid. Oh my word. Yeah, that is insane. And from that, like exhausted all my resources um to get through that. And well, you know, as far as closing on the building, yeah. On, you know, in that situation of like how how do I create sustainability after everything has been depleted? Right, right. Like, how do I get back to where it was? Yeah. Um, and it's a slow climb. It's a very slow climb. But we made it through where a lot of practices had to close their doors, right? So um I would say it's kind of like in those situations where you're like, I'm gonna find out who I am right now. Exactly. Yeah. And I'm gonna find out the kind of leader I am. My teen knew how hard that was. Yeah. Like I was very transparent with them about here's what happened. And here's, you know, I don't want anybody to have to go without a paycheck. I mean, I went with that one so that everybody else could have one. But it's like, I don't want any, I don't want that for anybody. Here's what we're dealing with. So, you know, I this is a team problem solving thing. What workarounds are we gonna do? You know, how are how are we gonna get these claims out to get the money in? Um, and then beyond all that, how are we gonna recover? Yeah, for sustainability. Yeah. Um, so I think, yeah, during that time, had I not had a support system, a tribe, someone who gets it. Yeah, because I have a husband. He didn't get it. He loves you. He loves me. He knew that it was bad. Yeah, but he didn't get in, he doesn't know insurance, he doesn't know what a clearing house is. He doesn't, he's like, just send the claim, like get the money. And uh, so it's like, you know, having a network of providers or professionals, um, other clinics uh owners and learning from them, what are you doing? Right um, them learning from you, uh, all of that was very helpful. And then being able to say, okay, now what do I do? I need to, I need to seek out someone for this. And then having that network or having that support group gives you resources for who to seek out, right? You know, or um, you know, reputable people, uh, professionals that can help in those in those situations. So yeah, I just say don't do it alone.

SPEAKER_02 57:14

Don't do it alone.

SPEAKER_03 57:15

Don't do it alone.

SPEAKER_02 57:16

There you are. Well, this one question I always like to ask before we close is what is something you do not have fully figured out yet, but you're choosing to build through anyway.

SPEAKER_05 57:27

Wow.

SPEAKER_03 57:30

Um, I don't hesitate because I don't my hesitation in answering this is not because I can't think of anything. It's because I can't think of one thing.

SPEAKER_02 57:44

The one that, yeah. Like still doing it. Still doing it.

SPEAKER_05 57:48

Um I would say, ooh. I don't have the balance figured out yet. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 58:03

I don't know if you ever get that figured out, really. I don't know. Right.

SPEAKER_03 58:07

If you could. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 58:08

Because life is always changing too.

SPEAKER_03 58:10

Right. Especially with kids. Yeah. And like even just this um profession is there's an ebb and flow. I think that knowing your ebb and flows is really helpful because then you know, like, hey, we're coming up in the holiday months, and the holiday months have a lot of cancellations and people get, you know, so it's kind of like knowing your markets um ebb and flows is really helpful to be able to predict how much of you is going to be needed. It's just like accountants who are like, hey, guess what? Don't ask me for anything from this month to this month out. It's tax season. Yeah, right. It's kind of like that. It's like from this month to this month, I know I'm going to need to up my marketing here or decrease my costs for this. Yeah. Um, and being able to have the insight and foresight for that. Um, but yeah, the balance, I think, um is something I don't know that I have figured out that and the um maybe the um our business is so different, right? So in you know, in service-based, yeah, in service-based um professions, I think we never are able to have it figured out. Yeah. Uh because needs and the market is always changing. Yeah. So it's not just like this is an amazing product, push it, right? So there it's ever changing. And especially so hiring in our particular field is difficult in the sense that you know, we can if we were to lose a therapist and this percentage of our operating costs are utilized from that therapist's billing. And that therapist is leaving. You lose that. Yes. And you don't just hire someone the next day. Right. Because then you have credentialing for insurance companies. And to get someone on board it is a three to five month process. Oh my goodness. For credentialing. So you want to keep your therapist for insurance credentialing. So, um, and it's not just like, oh, we lost that therapist in caseload because you have the referrals coming in to to replace that. Right. It's like having someone who's now credentialed with you on these insurance panels. Or, you know, if they're already credentialed, that's one thing. If they're not already credentialed, it's a lot longer of a process. So it is um it's being able to absorb or plan for or have a big enough margin that those situations don't hit you as hard.

SPEAKER_02 1:01:27

Yeah. Yeah. Well, and the next person might have to do some building to build their clientele back up. Right.

SPEAKER_03 1:01:34

And so I think that, yeah, it's not getting complacent. Yeah, you've always got to be building. Always gotta be building or preparing, yeah, for the shoe to drop. Yeah. Which is um doesn't sound fun, does it? Well, no, but it's a part of it, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:01:53

Okay, well, tell everyone where they can connect with you online, learn about anchored and hope online, and even the nonprofit that you mentioned, all of the things. Where can they find you?

SPEAKER_03 1:02:07

At Anchored In Hopetherapy.com. It's the longest ever, but it is anchoredinho.com is our website, or you can follow our socials. Uh, we are on Facebook and Instagram, and um everything that you would need um to find elsewhere, like there's a link for um enduring hope from the Inch and Hope uh website. And um, if you browse around on that or you know, upcoming, we're gonna be having some groups. Uh, we have some kids' groups during the summer. Um we do some events that are kind of fun. So if you follow socials, they're always posted there. And you can read about our team or any of our articles or content. Um Simon's book. Simon has a book. Simon has a book.

SPEAKER_02 1:03:11

Um, don't they have their own Instagram or some TikTok? They have their own TikTok account.

SPEAKER_03 1:03:17

You need to, if you're on TikTok, you need to follow the I need to do better about that. It's like one of the many things that I'm not very good at. I say people can probably tell I'm ADHD because there will be like three new posts in a day and then like nothing for three weeks. So um, but yes, they do have a TikTok and it's like Shiloh and Simon. But yeah, so Simon has a book, it's for um for kids therapy based, but it just follows Simon through his journey on the forest. But he's um teaching did you write it?

SPEAKER_04 1:03:54

Mm-hmm.

SPEAKER_03 1:03:55

So he is teaching um coping skills. Is it where can you can you get that on Amazon? Yeah, so um it's available on our website and it's available on Amazon, Walmart, Target, and Barnes and Note. That's awesome. I love that so much.

SPEAKER_02 1:04:14

I love the story. I love the connection.

SPEAKER_03 1:04:16

I'm all about so this one is called Simon says go slow. But our next, well, he has Simon says it's a series.

SPEAKER_00 1:04:23

It is a story.

SPEAKER_03 1:04:25

Yes, yes. He has a Simon says Merry Christmas. But the next one is Simon says goodnight. So it's gonna be on how to shut our brains off at night.

SPEAKER_02 1:04:34

Oh my goodness, I love this. I love this so much. Yeah, the sky's the limit with this. Yeah, yeah. So smart. It's Simon says, I love it.

unknown 1:04:43

Ah.

SPEAKER_02 1:04:44

Okay, well, that's it for this session of the back office. If this conversation gave you clarity, a new angle, or even just a reminder that you're not the only one navigating this, then it is a job. Take what's useful, apply it, move on it, and remember, no one has it figured out, but we are building anyway. And if you found the Bible, share with another operator who's also building. And you can always hang out with us in between that's just I think if I'm marketing, it's still built. I'm going to build it, and we'll speak out next time.