The Business of Listening

In a world where customers have endless choices, what actually makes a business stand out? 

In this episode of The Back Office, I sit down with Deborah Jenkins, co-owner of Doc J’s Heat & Air Tulsa, to talk about the power of relationships, listening well, and continually learning in business. 

Before stepping into entrepreneurship, Deborah spent more than thirty years in medicine—a background that shaped the way she serves customers, communicates, and builds trust. What emerged from that experience is a refreshing perspective on customer service, networking, and leadership in today’s business world. 

We talk about the importance of authentic relationships, how businesses can create value beyond the service they provide, and why adaptability and lifelong learning matter more than ever. 

This conversation is full of wisdom for entrepreneurs, leaders, and anyone who wants to build a business people genuinely remember. 

Show Notes 

Guest: Deborah Jenkins 

Business: Co-Owner, Doc J’s Heat & Air Tulsa 

Location: Tulsa, Oklahoma 

Deborah Jenkins is co-owner of Doc J’s Heat & Air Tulsa. Deborah’s story goes far beyond HVAC. Before stepping into business ownership, she spent more than thirty years in medicine—an experience that shaped the way she serves people, communicates, and builds trust. 

In This Episode, We Cover: 

- Deborah’s transition from medicine to business ownership 

- How “bedside manner” translates into customer service 

- The power of listening well 

- Networking and relationship-building 

- Staying adaptable and open to learning 

- Standing out in a competitive industry 

- Building trust with customers 

- Leadership and personal growth through entrepreneurship 

Find her online

Website: https://docjsheatandair.com/

Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/docjsheatandair

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/deborahjenkinsdocj/

About The Back Office

Hosted by Dalayna Dillon
Founder & Creative Director of Signify Marketing

The Back Office invites listeners into honest conversations about marketing, growth, leadership, and the real decisions shaping active businesses.

Facebook/Instagram: @signifymarketingsocial 

www.signifymarketing.social

Transcript

SPEAKER_00 0:06

Welcome to the back office. I'm Delena Dillon, the founder and creative director of Signify Marketing, and this is where you get to sit in on real strategy. Each episode we step into active businesses and have honest conversations about marketing, growth, leadership, and the decisions shaping what happens next. No one has it fully figured out, but we are building anyway. My guest today is Deborah Jenkins, the co-owner of Doc J's Heat and Air Tulsa. But Deborah's story goes far beyond HVAC. Before stepping into business ownership, she spent more than 30 years in medicine, an experience that shaped the way she serves people, communicates, and builds trust. One thing I've always admired about Deborah is her willingness to keep learning. No matter how much experience she has, she's always open to new ideas, new technologies, and better ways of serving people. And in a world where customers have more choices than ever, that mindset really matters. So in this episode, we talk about the power of networking, what businesses often misunderstand about customer service, and how listening well can completely change the customer experience. And finally, what it takes to stand out in a crowded industry. This conversation conversation isn't just for business owners in a service world, it's really just about people, trust, adaptability, and building relationships that last. So, Deborah, welcome to the back office.

SPEAKER_03 1:37

Thank you. It's fun to be here.

SPEAKER_00 1:38

So before, listen, this was mind-blowing to me. I told her before we started filming I was gonna wait and say this when we started recording. I I've known you for a while and I didn't know where Doc J's the name came from. How did I not know this? Well, how did I not know? I was mind-blowing. I was like, what? That's where it came from.

SPEAKER_03 2:05

Well, we didn't really um, we really didn't do uh a big doctor theme kind of a thing, a hospital theme. Although the funny thing is that if you look at the way that our vehicles are now wrapped, um we joke that we could probably pull up to an emergency scene and then people would think that we were there to do CPR or something.

SPEAKER_00 2:27

Well, other air conditioning units, maybe.

SPEAKER_03 2:30

Uh yeah, yeah. So we we haven't um we talk in terms of diagnosis, that type of thing. And um and um we don't use the word differential diagnosis, but we do approach it in terms of trying to teach people how to systematically um go about problem solving rather than just um looking at something that says, oh, it it just could be this or it just could be that. We try to teach um our technicians to be very logical, and that's the same kind of thing that you would do in medicine. So it's kind of a combination of two things. It's a combination of yes, I'm a retired doctor, um, and yes, Doc J was my nickname that I was given um by the male nurses in particular, and then it began to stick. Um uh, but also um there was a basketball player, Julius Irving, who back in your parents' day of last century was one of the best. Okay. And so if what was his team? Uh I believe uh it was Philadelphia, if I remember. A listener will probably know. Yes, yes. So, but Julius uh, you know, Doc J. So if your name was Julius or Julian or or John or something, it would be a compliment if you played basketball and then your nickname could be Doc J. Okay. Because of Julius Irving, right? And Julius in high school played uh basketball. He wasn't necessarily the best on the team. He thought he was, however, and so he was Doc J. So we were both Doc J, but for different reasons.

SPEAKER_00 4:07

For different reasons.

SPEAKER_03 4:08

Uh-huh.

SPEAKER_00 4:09

Yeah. Well, I just don't know how I didn't know this. I mean, 30 years in medicine.

SPEAKER_03 4:15

Yeah, yes. Uh-huh.

SPEAKER_00 4:16

That's yeah, that's like a lifetime.

SPEAKER_03 4:19

Uh, yeah, I look at it as my my first first life.

SPEAKER_00 4:22

Your first life. This is your second life.

SPEAKER_03 4:23

That's my second life. Uh, you know, the backstory for that was that uh uh Julius was my high school boyfriend. So we were high school boyfriend and girlfriend. He went to the Catholic school, uh Bishop Kelly in the town. And then I went to the Episcopal Affiliated School, Hall and Hall. Oh and uh so and then after high school we uh pretty much went our own ways. Um and Julius actually got married uh after college. And um so and then I went on to um undergraduate and graduate school, medical school, practiced as an anesthesiologist, and then did uh about 13 years of medical outreach work with Doctors Without Borders, which is the reason why I can speak French also.

SPEAKER_00 5:13

Super cool. Did another thing I did not know.

SPEAKER_03 5:16

Yeah, yeah. Well I had learned French in high school, um, but you know, hardly ever got a chance to use it, but had the opportunity of actually working in French speaking countries. Um Ivory Coast, uh, Congo, Haiti, and and Chad were the um were the four places where where French was spoken. Um so it it gave me quite a bit of opportunity. Yeah. Um and but so that's why um but what happened was is that it was um 2014 and I was about a at a transition was I gonna continue to do medical outreach work, which was gonna take me away from home more and more and more um because I had started to do more operational management types of things. Um either a hospital manager of a small hospital that had been set up um in an emergency circumstance or deputy hospital manager that you know, those were the kind of assignments that I was taking. Um, and I really didn't want to be that away from home uh with only a couple of weeks of coming back to the States and that type of a thing. So I was in transition and here comes the old boyfriend from high school through Facebook. Now, see that's the value of social media right there. Yes, two old parts, high school boyfriend and girlfriend. Meet together, and then that's all she wrote.

SPEAKER_01 6:42

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 6:43

Um, when we were in high school, Julius had already um been uh involved in heating air conditioning. Um great story behind that, actually, was that it was a uh one of the boosters of Bishop Kelly, took a real interest in him, knew that in order for him to be able to stay at Kelly, he was gonna have to work during the summer because his parents were not in a position to be able to pay tuition. So he went to another Bishop Kelly booster who had an air conditioning company and said, I hope you need help. I know a guy, and um, and it was Louis Terrell, and he worked with Louis in the summer and also during the year. And so Louis actually is gonna make me cry. Oh, don't cry now. And it but it does, it touches me.

SPEAKER_02 7:35

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 7:36

About how he helped pay for the towish tuition up front, yeah, yeah, and then Julius continued to work it on. Yeah, yeah. I think that was part of the the work ethic that you learn at a very young age is you know being responsible. Yeah. Right. And so that that was his introduction. Went to college, had it had a job after college, doing some early IT work um last century. Uh got laid off and then ended up working in night shift manager at McDonald's. Right.

SPEAKER_00 8:07

Um work ethic is still there.

SPEAKER_03 8:10

Work ethic's still there, but um going back into the trade that he had learned in high school was something that he felt that you would have ups and downs in the economy, but you would not get laid off. Right, right. And then the other thing of enjoying the fix it, you know, coming in where something's broken, something's wrong, and being able to fix it really fit his personality too.

SPEAKER_00 8:33

Yeah. That was a perfect fit then. He didn't know it, but it was in the it was in the stars.

SPEAKER_03 8:38

Yeah, yes, uh-huh. And I think, yeah, because I think that um uh sometimes we think that the trades are only for the guys that that could not cut it in college, and that's not the thing.

SPEAKER_00 8:50

Listen, it I couldn't do that. They're smarter than me. I'll tell you that. The tradesmen, I they're smart, they're resourceful, hardworking, like you just everything you just described, and they're running a business. Yes, all at the same time.

SPEAKER_03 9:05

Yeah, well that well that well that's our feeling too.

SPEAKER_00 9:07

Yeah. Oh man, it's a lot. Uh-huh. So what skills from medicine, because obviously you brought a lot of the administration to Doc J's. You brought a lot of the relationship building um and networking to Doc J's, but what skills from medicine did you did unexpectedly translate it into this business that you might not have been expecting?

SPEAKER_03 9:32

I think one of the one of the main things uh is understanding that it's not only just what you do, but it's the way that people feel about what you do is really what determines um how satisfied people are. Yeah. Um, so sometimes what happens in the trades is that people will go and fix it. Everything is okay, but if you haven't explained what happened to the satisfaction of the person now, it doesn't mean that you have to give a PhD dissertation. It's just that you need to explain to the point at which they're satisfied. And um and I think that's important because again, it it's it's not necessarily just what you do, but it's the way the people feel about it. Right. So here's an example is that you can come in and and um you know take care of things, and then you go, a lot of the guys want to go, okay, everything's okay now. Um they'll send you the bill. See you later because they want to get it to the next call. Yeah, but that person wants to be able to understand just a little bit about what happened. Because they're asking themselves not not only what what happened, but was it the right thing for me to do to call you when I did? Is it still gonna is is it something that can happen again? What do I have to watch for? Um is there anything that I can do to prevent it? Those are the kind of questions. Right. And um, so and and knowing that is because whenever you're talking to people and you talk to people all the time in medicine, you're always thinking, uh, in a head, what can I potentially answer, knowing uh what those questions that they may already have. Yeah, right.

SPEAKER_00 11:17

Right. Because people always have questions about their health, about whatever's going on.

SPEAKER_03 11:21

Mm-hmm.

SPEAKER_00 11:21

Yeah. Right. So that's huge.

SPEAKER_03 11:23

Yes. So I so I think that uh like I said, um that idea of of explaining things to people to their satisfaction. I think the other thing, which is not exclusive to medicine, but understanding that depending upon whom you're talking to and what the circumstances are, you need to try to tailor what you say. Yeah. So if we have people who are are engineer computer types, often they like a certain level of detail. Our people who are more of the nurturing type, they just want to know, is my family gonna be comfortable? Right. They want to hear family talk.

SPEAKER_01 12:03

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 12:04

Because that's what they're worried about. People who are working from home really want to know, um, what are my chances? I mean, do I really have to replace or is it better that do I have to, you know, get new equipment? They're gonna start asking those kind of questions because they have to have a comfortable environment. Right. Um, and they may be zooming at meetings and they don't want sweat running down their face when they're trying to zoom. Yeah. So again, it's that idea of you tailor what you say according to what your clues are, not just in terms uh of of where you've kind of sized the person up a little bit.

SPEAKER_01 12:41

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 12:42

Um, but you've done it just so that you can figure out how can how can I help them feel more comfortable about what's going to be done or or what's going to happen.

SPEAKER_01 12:52

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 12:52

And I think the other thing is is that when something is not your field, okay? It's not your specialty. If you can just get in the habit of in different ways learning how to say the same thing without simply repeating it the same way. Then you have um better communication.

SPEAKER_01 13:17

Right.

SPEAKER_03 13:18

And the same thing about um um summarizing. Yeah. After you've said uh a lot, just sort of summarizing and then people again will catch on, they'll be more comfortable, and they will understand. And that's a technique because a lot of times in medicine, depending upon the circumstances, it can be really routine for you as a medical practitioner. But when it's you and it's your body, yeah, there's nothing routine about it.

unknown 13:48

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 13:50

Even if it's not a big deal, you're still anxious inside. Right. So if you so I I I learned the technique of, like I said, saying things more than one way, summarizing them because I know that your mind is is someplace else. Yes. And it's not really present. Yeah, because anxiety is is talking in the other ear while you're talking on this side. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 14:17

Well, and really I see that scenario in both situations, and like you're in a medical situation, in a you have a uh, you know, HVAC problem of some kind. It feels like so much information, like you said, and your mind is just trying to process it. So all of those steps help in both scenarios. This does not seem like something that that a lot of HVAC companies might be thinking through, processing through.

SPEAKER_03 14:45

Is this the normal thing for well I I I I think that if you I think the key of any kind of communication is not just every individual can have their own style. But I think that one of the things that if you can help create an atmosphere of of a style and an approach, then you have more people out there that are going to um communicate in I guess you call it the Doc J way. Um and it goes beyond just um, you know, you as an individual. But I I think that um it is um a lot of times you I I think it's hard to be like in the field and be a technician because can you imagine how many homes in Tulsa you have knocked on that door and you don't know who that person is? Right. You as a homeowner, you're looking at one person in front of you, and that technician is looking at you, maybe the gosh, the 50th new person that they have had to smile to and try to explain something to you and try to um help you feel more comfortable quickly. And so you're asking a lot of them, right? So to have have that skill of quickly being able to be very polite, put people at ease, be able to technically do your job at the same time and explain what happened and and give your options, it really requires a a good full skill set.

SPEAKER_00 16:21

Yeah, and a lot of energy.

SPEAKER_03 16:22

And but and it's a skill set that you have to help people with. You have to help people with the technical part and you have to help people with the other interpersonal parts too.

SPEAKER_00 16:33

Yes.

SPEAKER_03 16:34

Uh-huh.

SPEAKER_00 16:34

A hundred percent. So one thing I've noticed about you is your ability to genuinely connect with people. Where did that come from? Is that just you as an app is that just your personality?

SPEAKER_03 16:47

Um, no, I well, I mean, I I think some people are more introverted, some people more extroverted. Um, but I would probably say that a lot has to do with adaptability. Uh my father was in the military. And unfortunately, he was in the military during the time of the Vietnam conflict. Yeah. So he left us twice, um, once to go to Vietnam, and then another time to go to Thailand, and they were in Thailand because of the conflict in Vietnam. So, what that meant was is that my mother, who is original Oklahoma, uh would pack us up off the army base and she would always bring us back to Oklahoma, which is home.

SPEAKER_02 17:28

Yeah. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 17:28

Yeah. Which meant that by the time I was in seventh grade and my father was no longer in the military, I had been in seven different schools.

SPEAKER_00 17:36

Oh my word.

SPEAKER_03 17:37

Yes. So I think that that's that adaptability. And the other thing is that as a kid, however, you learn how to always accept the new people in the group because everyone else's family was moving around quite a bit too. Right. So you were always having to welcome the new kid that was um standing in front of the class. I mean, sometimes you can go to school and there's only like one new kid the whole year. Yeah. Right? Yeah. Well, in the in the military school, that can be or on the military base, um, that can have it happens frequently. And you're the new kid. So, so I think in um part of that adaptability um and openness to change has to do with um really has to do with seven schools in seventh grade. And I think the other thing is is just having my my grandparents, my relatives that are Oklahoma people. Um, you know, people from Oklahoma are are I think there's surveys have actually shown that we're some of the friendliest people in the United States.

SPEAKER_00 18:40

I'll take that. I'll take that. I mean, I feel like it's true. So uh well, I adaptability and openness to change, those have got to be superpowers, like in every part of life, but especially in business. How many times in business are things changing? Things get thrown at you you weren't expecting. I mean, every all the time. All the time it happens. So that is it seems like a superpower, but it's really a hard muscle to develop.

SPEAKER_03 19:12

Well, you have to keep flexing it, and I think that um I mean I'm no spring chicken, right? And so um uh as as we go older, I mean, people love stability.

SPEAKER_01 19:24

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 19:25

And you're you and as you grow older, sometimes you really start grasping at always staying stable. And when always and stable means staying the same, but everything around you is changing, right? It's actually more anxiety producing. Uh and I think just having that attitude of uh everything's gonna change. Um, you have to figure out what's worth holding on to, and then what else do you have to change?

SPEAKER_01 19:52

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 19:53

Right. So um there are, you know, we do a lot of things on the computer, you know, we have the electronic invoices, we have the electronic scheduling. Um, it was important to for people to get text messages about warnings about their appointments. Yeah. Warning and they want to know that you're on your way and and that kind of a thing. Um, because people are, you know, juggling a lot of stuff together. So some people have kind of um have have fought that. Well, uh, you know, you you have to be adaptable.

SPEAKER_01 20:28

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 20:29

Uh and right now you had to be really adaptable in in our industry because COVID changed things radically. How did they how did what were the biggest impacts from COVID for well the biggest impact from COVID is that um when um when Julius and I were coming back from Atlanta and basically going to get the business open here, here comes COVID, right?

SPEAKER_00 20:52

And a lot of people So you you opened during COVID?

SPEAKER_03 20:55

Uh just before COVID. It was actually the fall of um 2019. Okay. Well, and um Julius was working for a company, Moncrief in Georgia, a large company, and he was a technical referent. What that meant was is that you know, he he did all the work that the other guys did, in particular with service and repair, did some install work. Um, and but he was the one who was the person that they would call whenever there was something difficult, especially with their um their very high efficiency equipment that has a lot of intercommunicating parts. Uh some some of the equipment, even just at a residential level, could have six or seven different control boards, which which in layman's terms people don't call them that anymore, but motherboards, you know, that that are communicating with each other. So you had to be able to figure out um uh you know where the problem you know was. So that's what he was doing um before we came back. So it was um the fall of 2019. Okay. Okay. And so here comes COVID. And I think when you when sometimes people say, what difference did medicine work? First of all, um, we didn't um argue over whether or not COVID was real or unreal. Um, I had worked in circumstances and where I had seen people who without treatment, yeah, not knowing what it is, um could could could die from it. Right. And um, and then taking precautions, that's just a way of life. I mean, you you you you get accustomed to wearing a mask, you wear gloves, you use disinfectant all the time, and it's it's just a part of procedure. It's something that you do for yourself and it's something that you do for your patients, it's something that you do for your customers. Right. So even if you didn't have fear, I'm not afraid of that. Well, the people's homes that you're going into, they have they have elderly people, they have children, especially small children, that don't have great immune systems, right? You have to be more protective.

SPEAKER_02 23:03

Right, right.

SPEAKER_03 23:04

Um, so or people with medical problems. So it was not a big transition. There was no fight about the mask, about the disinfectants, about um at sometimes, depending upon what it was, changing all the clothes uh in the garage and then coming in and going straight to the shower. Yeah. Um well, you had to, it depended if people were sick and coughing or or or you were suspecting, and then also um um doing things where the person's on the other side of the room and you might be talking on the phone, looking at each other way over there or through the glass, you know, you're you're talking to them on the phone and waving and knocking and whatever, and just making transitions. And again, it's um you know, just adapting to your circumstance. And then in the industry, we've had to adapt to the favorite um refrigerant R22 is you know, going completely out because of effects on the environment. Okay. Having the substitute that came in uh around 2000, 2008 um be shown to have environmental effects. And then that is now on its way out. And we'll make them with newer refrigerants. And then the third major change would be um um increasing um um the the materials that go into the equipment um have been subject to various taxes and tariffs and and um there's a lot of more competition for resources.

SPEAKER_02 24:41

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 24:42

Um because globally um more and more people want want climatized air. They they want air conditioning, they want central heating.

SPEAKER_00 24:51

Um I don't blame them.

SPEAKER_03 24:53

Yeah, yeah. Yeah, all yeah, there's a there's a lot of pressure on that. So prices are up. Um and that's something that you do that you have to adapt to.

SPEAKER_00 25:02

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 25:02

And their uh prices basically are up over 20% over the last couple of years.

SPEAKER_00 25:07

Things we wouldn't know about. Only people in the profession would know.

SPEAKER_03 25:10

Well, homeowners know when they get an estimate or something like that, you know. That's but but otherwise you you really don't understand that um that and and also that um we we live in an international market when it comes to things like steel and aluminum. Um we have we we do our own production, but we also import a lot. And those are the things that that go into a lot of the you know bus bigger pieces of equipment.

SPEAKER_00 25:36

Right, right. Well, I mentioned earlier how you are very skilled and knowledgeable in the networking area of business. So, how important has networking been in building your business?

SPEAKER_03 25:51

Oh my gosh, it's really, really important for us. Um because um we first of all, we we end up you need a lot of customers.

SPEAKER_01 26:02

Right.

SPEAKER_03 26:02

Volume Yeah, because we do primarily residential versus if you're doing primarily commercial. Right. It's a smaller group of people. Um but the other um so so it's it's needed. Uh the other thing is that one of the things that the networking group that we were actually originally in, um, it really emphasized uh one of the go-getter principles or or the principle of before you go out asking people for something, because a lot of people are in, they're thinking, okay, I'm gonna ask them for the sale, I'm gonna ask them to send me referrals, I'm gonna ask them. Think about what you can do for that person first.

SPEAKER_00 26:43

Yeah. Right. It's less transactional that way.

SPEAKER_03 26:48

And but uh for you to figure out what can you do for that person, you you've got to listen to them to understand what their needs are. Right. You've got to think about the area that they might be in. Right? Yeah. And um and and I think that helps you to build networking. And I think you also need to be networking and there and always um with your customers.

SPEAKER_02 27:09

Right.

SPEAKER_03 27:10

You have to uh keep in contact with them. What people don't understand um the is that depending upon what your area is, a lot of times you may have done a fantastic service for someone but it's been a few years and they tend to forget you. Right. And and they're hearing all this other advertisement. So if they haven't heard from you, if you don't have a newsletter, if you're not keeping up with them, right. If you're not um at least putting out a a newsletter or something, um, then they forget about you. Yeah. And that's just human nature. But I think that business to business, it's important for you to figure out ways of being supportive of other people's businesses.

SPEAKER_00 27:58

Yes. Yeah. So this is a quote um that I I you know how you watch a movie a million times and then you'll hear something you've heard over and over, and then you're like, oh, that's really good. So this is a quote from the very knowledgeable Kevin McAllister from Home Alone.

unknown 28:15

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 28:16

The first one. Okay. I think it's the first one. I'm I'm almost positive it's the first one. He says, People forget to remember you. So sometimes we can take it really personal when we see maybe a customer, an old client or whatever go somewhere else. And a lot of times they didn't mean to forget you. So we gotta help them remember us by doing those simple things, an email, a text, or whatever it is. Um, because people can forget to remember you. But speaking of being memorable, what makes someone memorable in networking settings? Because a lot of people struggle with networking. They they feel awkward, they're uncomfortable. But what would make you memorable in that kind of a setting?

SPEAKER_03 29:01

Well, one of the things that I usually do, okay, I usually wear a name tag.

SPEAKER_00 29:07

Yes.

SPEAKER_03 29:07

Now people will people will what's funny is that a w we are often a creature of what is everybody else doing? Yeah. So even if you ha have a name tag in your purse or in your car, if you're going into someplace that's a networking group or something, but other people don't wear their name tag or unnamed tag, people will tend to leave it in the car or leave it in the purse because they feel uh just a little bit awkward. But if but I wear I usually wear my name tag because it breaks down barriers. Yeah. One of one of the barrier that will hop keep you from um saying hello again to someone is is not remembering their name. Right, right. Or if you are someone who um you want to connect with someone and you see a name tag, then you can go, Oh, did I Deborah, did I see you at and then um they it it it draws people to you and also if you're a little bit introverted, like I'm if if I'm comfortable around people, then I'm comfortable around people. What you see is what you get, and it's fun. Yeah, it's fun, yeah, yeah. Like I'm very comfortable here, but there's circumstances that I go in and having people come to me, and I don't have to always be putting out that energy, and I already know they're gonna come to me. I can stand in a room, nobody don't know anyone, and people will come to me because I have because I have my name tag on. Yeah, and that's so that's one of the techniques that I do. Okay, right. The other thing is that if you just ask people questions that are probably gonna be important to them, if you get signs that someone has kids, ask them about their kids, you know, like you know, how how they how the kid or or ask them about how do you handle this, you know, you and uh trying to do all this and the kids, or you know, what what hilarious that have they done recently that you thought, oh my god, you know. I mean, talk to what things you think they're probably gonna be. People love to talk about their children.

SPEAKER_00 31:19

Yeah, that's true.

SPEAKER_03 31:20

You know, they love to talk about what they've done that's been fun.

SPEAKER_00 31:24

Well, and I'll tell you this this is kind of humorous. It's humorous to me, like it doesn't bother me, right? But because I don't have kids, I have seen in networking situations people after that one question, they don't have anything else to say. Be like, oh, do you have kids? No, they don't know what else to say. That's where it stops. Oh what you know what I mean? Because that's what they have, and so that's what they can understand and relate to. And that's they're really asking me about my kids, but really that's what they have to talk about. So that's what they lead with. But so many times they'll ask me, Do you have kids? Before they ask if I'm married, they asked if I have kids. And as soon as I say no, the conversation drops until I start asking. Well, tell me about your kids. Do you have kids? How many do you have? So you gotta, yeah, that that can be hard when that's all you got. You need some other things in your tool belt.

SPEAKER_03 32:17

Well, you need some other things in your tool belt, or if you when you when you stick your foot in the mouth, uh stick your foot in your mouth, admit you you stuck your foot in your mouth, you know. I came up, I mean, I mean, you can't take, I think, uh, you know, don't take yourself so seriously. So if someone says, well, um, what I usually get is people will make an assumption that I've got grandkids, I got this, I got that, and then sometimes it's just not worth it to even say yes or no or whatever. Um, and um again, um, you know, uh around Mother's Day, um you know, I don't have my own children. Julius has his kids, right? But the thing about it is is that everyone's gonna say happy Mother's Day. And not only that, is that if you smile to people and you're nice to them, they want to give you the biggest happiest Mother's Day that they can find. So I I just take it as love. I take it all the love that they give it to you because that's all they want to do is give you love. Right. But I think that when you stick your foot in your mouth and you said something like, Well, well, do you have any kids? You go, nope, nope. I probably make a joke out of like, okay, here, help me out. I'm networking. I'm trying to find some commonality here. And I said, I've asked you about your kids. Help me, what's that? I mean, what's next? I mean, have a you know, don't take yourself so seriously. Yeah, or apologize. I I made the assumption you have children and you don't.

SPEAKER_01 33:49

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 33:50

Okay. Um, but you know what? We can we can play that commonality thing. Uh let me see. Are you from Oklahoma? Yes. Oh, really? Okay. Um actually around Tosa? Yeah. Okay, because you know a lot of people are from outside. Yeah, yeah. Um, okay.

SPEAKER_00 34:12

And I could have found commonality with you because while I haven't been to all of the countries you were, I've been to that area whenever you were doing nurses without borders. But like this this literally makes me look bad because how did I not know that you were a medical you were a doctor before? But I'm just saying, I'd be like, oh yeah, I've been over to that area and we talk about talk about things that you discovered and you loved about those countries and everything like that. Uh-huh.

SPEAKER_03 34:37

Well, I think the thing is is that you know, if it i i if it's a different circumstance that it comes up. Right. But a lot of times you don't um um like I said, it just kind of depends on on on what the what the circumstance is.

SPEAKER_01 34:53

Yeah. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 34:54

I don't think um I think that you kind of sometimes, depending upon the circumstance, don't want sometimes I don't want the attention to be on me. I like i if it's somebody else's uh gig, let them have their have their time. Yeah. And and then your time will come.

SPEAKER_01 35:19

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 35:20

Yeah. Okay. But I'm still wondering what you what what people will say if you say you don't have kids. I mean, oh, you don't have kids. Okay, that was my first question. How about uh dogs? Well, I think dogs, how about dogs?

SPEAKER_00 35:32

Sometimes I'll do that when they say, Do you have any kids? I was like, I don't, but I do have a mini schnauzer. That's what I normally will say. Oh, wow because I've started saying that because I've saw so many people be like, what else do I say? You know, like what you said would be perfect. Oh, well, are you from Oklahoma? Are you from here? Very natural. But I think the idea is that don't all you can't always assume that people are fitting into a certain box that you kind of are come, you know, that people are usually comfortable with. But I think that's a good transition of where are you from? What you know, what do you tell me what you do for work, which is obviously in a network situation situation probably what you're doing?

SPEAKER_03 36:12

What I ask about that is that I think a lot of times I I like to ask people, um, sometimes I um if if they say what they do, you know, what's your typical day actually like? Yeah. I think we make a lot of assumptions of knowing what their day is like, and we don't have a clue um um what actually does happen.

SPEAKER_00 36:35

What does that actually look like, especially with some titles that no nobody really knows what that means, you know, which obviously people think they know a lot of times. What advice would you give someone who struggles with networking or putting themselves out there?

SPEAKER_03 36:50

Uh my advice would be to um look look at it like a smortgage board, you go into a buffet and go ahead and go out there and try different uh different groups at at at different um at different times.

SPEAKER_01 37:04

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 37:05

Um ask the people that you run into that um that that you feel a little bit comfortable with, ask them where they go.

SPEAKER_01 37:15

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 37:16

How has it worked out for them so that you're getting some feedback about about the groups.

SPEAKER_01 37:21

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 37:22

When you do pick a pick a group, you can go to a lot of different networking events, and that's what sometimes what people do. Um they they they they go to one here, they go to one here, sometimes they show up at this one, sometimes they show up at that one. If you're if you if you're gonna build a network, um you need to see people over and over again. I mean, trust and memorabilia to be memorable doesn't just happen overnight. Yeah. You can have a fantastic elevator speech um so that you you've hit all the high points that you're supposed to. But um people aren't gonna remember you. Right. Uh they're gonna forget about you. Yeah. So once you think, okay, uh this one seems to be can fit okay. This one seems all right. Go consistently. Uh but and in general, if you're trying to build a business, you have to go more than once a month.

unknown 38:20

Right.

SPEAKER_03 38:20

Now, I mean, even ourselves, I mean, we have we have been relatively out of the loop uh for about a year when it comes to in-person events. We still are very supportive of people that we can, especially the ones that we see a lot through s through social media, uh, by uh by being supportive of their business or their events and what they're doing. And that was just because of of family issues that were requiring a lot of time. But I think, you know, uh sample, yes, pick, yeah, and then be consistent.

SPEAKER_00 38:55

I think that's huge because a lot of people think that networking events are just to be pop in, pop out, but that's that's not where you get the most value. It's when you are consistent, right?

SPEAKER_03 39:07

I think consistency is real is really key. And then you also have to I mean pay attention to pay attention uh to whether or not if people are just sort of showing up and passing out business cards, or if people are actually meeting outside of the meeting, because that that's really where the connection is.

SPEAKER_01 39:33

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 39:33

Um our shared networking group that is that no longer exists, um, I think one of the absolute strengths was uh frequency, um common acceptance of the value of of one-on-one or small groups, the value of asking people questions um of them before you start saying things about you. Right. Trying to figure out how could you potentially help that person in some kind of a way.

SPEAKER_01 40:06

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 40:08

Um and um or or whatever or whatever it is, right? Um I think I think I think that's important. And yeah, like you know, we're a name tag. Um and and and like like I said, do something for the other people if you can. Yeah, and I think especially with social media and a lot of people trying to um they have business accounts.

SPEAKER_01 40:28

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 40:29

Go in, follow their business account, not just like what they say, if there's something where you can actually make a thoughtful comment. And LinkedIn is fabulous for that. Yeah, I know you're big on LinkedIn. Yeah, but LinkedIn is LinkedIn is like um I like LinkedIn is sort of like me hanging out with people that I probably would have hung out um at school with.

SPEAKER_01 40:53

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 40:53

And a number of the people that I went to college with are um still big LinkedIn people. Uh so yeah, I do really like LinkedIn. Um I like that not only is it um some somewhere where you can learn where you can um can potentially promote your business. I mean, you know, eighty-five percent of everyone who's a who's a connection is in the region.

SPEAKER_01 41:19

Right, right, right. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 41:21

But in the same light, there are people there that you can learn from. It's it it can often be interesting what they're talking about. Right. And and you it's a platform where you can be more thoughtful. You can post longer posts and people will actually read them.

SPEAKER_00 41:40

They're there to read them.

SPEAKER_03 41:41

They're they're actually there to read them. Um so I'll and I and I think that um I I think it's a under it's a growing platform.

SPEAKER_00 41:49

Yes. Well, and I think people I don't know, it probably depends on your industry, but people are I think are still trying to figure out how to best utilize it. For the that makes sense for them.

SPEAKER_03 42:00

Well, it's it's it's changed so much of well, this is some place I just throw my resume out to is that it really recognizes that um the majority of the time when people find a a new place of employment, it's they find it by doing what?

SPEAKER_00 42:18

Scrolling, scrolling on social media probably.

SPEAKER_03 42:20

Well, I it's from it's from networks. Yeah. The best jobs are found through networking.

SPEAKER_00 42:25

Well, that's sure. Yeah, and you're more likely to probably have a foot in when you're going through that. Your network.

SPEAKER_03 42:30

Yes, and your network can help you. I I still um since we haven't I haven't asked her if it's okay to mention her name, so I but her face is right in front of me. Oh, yeah, yeah. I still I still I still remember someone who um good, good hard worker, right? But she was doing something that probably really wasn't yet in her skill set. So she um got fired. Okay. But was she conscientious? Was she a learner? Was she someone with potential? Yes, she was, and people in the network knew that. Yeah, and so when she put out her resume that she was looking, people shared her stuff. Yeah, the girlfriend found a job in two weeks. Well, and also they're fired from her other job, and she has proceeded to move up. And I oh I wish I'm so proud of her.

SPEAKER_00 43:26

Well, good. Well, that's what having a network is so important. Exactly. They're your cheerleaders, they're your support, they're your promoters, they'll talk good about you behind your back. They should anyway. I guess I just thought they should.

SPEAKER_03 43:45

No, that's the good that's the good network. What you call the good gossip.

SPEAKER_00 43:49

The good gossip. I mean, I know that there's some of both, but you know, we can we can choose to be part of the good gossip. Uh huh. So in the HVAC system, people, customers, have a lot of choices. How are some of the ways that you all set yourselves apart so that you're distinct? Obviously I think I mean for me I met y'all through networking situations. So to me, I know you I like you I trust you boom. But just to the general public, how do you set yourself apart?

SPEAKER_03 44:21

I think that there's nothing like absolutely wild that you can do. I mean um this to uh to set yourself apart I think the the positive things that you do if you try to do them consistently and you also recognize that one of the most you reckon okay what I tell the technicians and I tell people first of all if you are going into someone's home yeah okay that home your your home may be 4,000 square feet with a pool but their home may be 1200 square feet with a little patch of grass in the back. With a poor little dog that wish it had a pool. That is their home. Yeah that is their need of you to be a little castle okay so you approach that that you have entered into their kingdom. Yeah and when you're in somebody else's kingdom you are always courteous you are always polite you err on the side of formality rather than informality because you do not ever want to offend anyone. So if in doubt it is always yes ma'am yes sir you betcha okay because you don't want to go up to an elderly female and then call them by their first name you always call them by their last name first and and again you do the southern ma'am yes ma'am kind of a thing first because uh you're erring on the side of formality.

SPEAKER_01 46:01

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 46:01

So I think that when you always go into people's homes with that feeling of of respectfulness that this is your kingdom and it's an honor to be in invited into your home. Yeah. I gotta tell you that you carry that with you always whenever you can and you're not you're not doing them a favor. Right. That is I think that that that helps and then the other thing like you said people have a lot of choices and not every business is going to be the right match for people. Yeah um and then I think the other thing which uh as you do so much social media um go ahead and show people who you are what you do behind the scenes yeah um and don't be shy about showing who you are right so um uh stock photos may look really great and they may be perfectly composed but they're not the same as having your own people and so after the guys do an install they're not perfectly dressed in a white shirt with with with a monogram on it. Yeah okay the jeans are dirty they are sweaty sometimes their shirts are hanging on them and they're and they're wet yeah right their homes their hair was combed at the beginning of the day no meet out yeah but they still have that great smile if if they're saying we just finished this and they're taking a picture in front of the equipment. Right. So just show show what's involved in your business and I think that people like to see what's involved in your business.

SPEAKER_00 47:39

Yeah we we think it's absolutely off the chain that we were just showing how Julius uh he was talking about how he du uh cleans an outside air conditioning condenser always does the deluxe clean right yeah on LinkedIn 3500 impressions on LinkedIn that means people are local people are like oh really is that how you do that yeah again it's behind the scenes it's authentic and I think being authentic uh i is something that that that that people like to know yes a lot of times people in your industry they don't expect to know what the technician's gonna look like until they show up and so having those behind the scenes things let them know okay that's who I'm working with you know so it's not just a complete stranger oh I've seen them I've seen their picture and probably it was texted to them in the hey I'm on your way type of thing too.

SPEAKER_03 48:32

Well uh and people know I think when people talk about branding a lot of times they a lot of times they they think very p superficial right that it has something to do it it it it's all about the pretty logo. But actually that brand is when people hear the name or they see that brand what is the first thing that comes to their mind? Does it make them smile? Yeah or does does it kind of just give them kind of just a uh are they curious? But in general whatever is that first impression oh I heard good things about them. Yes or they helped my mama or whatever that's really the kind of thing that that's the kind of branding that's important.

SPEAKER_00 49:15

Yes. Oh so important. Uh-huh um what what are some of the lessons you learned the hard way with Doc J Oh jeez.

SPEAKER_03 49:28

I learned the hard way that just because you're capable of doing something doesn't necessarily mean that it's a good thing for you to do. Oh wow I think that uh I was able to at the beginning juggle all the all the back office things and I was kind of I was I was actually interested in in learning some of things that I hadn't didn't know didn't know about at all. But I think that it would have been better to have actually hired out earlier. Now that I do have a virtual assistant I I just thought why did I wait so long?

SPEAKER_01 50:04

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 50:04

Why why did I actually you know wait wait as long as I did yeah and it wasn't that I was you know a lot of times people say if you're not good at something that's that's what you should hire out or uh something like that. Or if you don't like it, yeah. Well it a lot of the stuff I actually liked. I just wish that I had more time with it. Right. But I really enjoy uh like even the freedom right now of being able to talk to you and and knowing that uh anything that's coming in that that um Joselle who is our virtual assistant is answering that she's got it covered and she's got it covered and not only is she good I mean I tr you know we I I trained her and and she's incredibly um you know talented and smart and um she's um you know she's actually she's not she's not US based right but she has a master's degree and because she can't find an equivalent um uh position in her in her country right so and sh her undergraduate was um a concentration in children's art oh wow so her uh graphic design mind and her social media mind is just off the chain how talented she is um you know she's got so many capabilities and uh it it's a joy to be able to work with her. Yeah but I would have done that much much earlier and that was one of my mistakes that I learned from because I was doing so much and then I got pretty burnt out right and frazzled and didn't uh it it was and it was harder to separate you really got to separate your um your business life and your personal life. Yeah if you are if you if you are um working like with a spouse or a partner and you are always together that business can creep into everything that you do. Exactly and that's not healthy for a relationship. Yeah you you you you've gotta um have where the door closes.

SPEAKER_00 52:12

Yes that's that's important for people to hear it really is.

SPEAKER_03 52:16

What excites you most about where the business is headed right now well what excites me is that I think that we're in a position where we can really start to grow and because we want to get a couple more apprentices. We're someone that um a lot of people are um they they're really they have these m they have these boards and uh they they keep them and they're looking at like uh this hour how much we made or whatever and they're keeping up with all their money all the time and we um we of course look at money because you have to make money to stay in business or you're out of business, right? Yeah. But one of our passions is being able to uh train apprentices and train apprentices well so that they they can under and understand all aspects of the business and we actually uh um teach them about marketing too and so so we were happy about that and and we're hoping to be able to grow because we want to acquire another couple of apprentices because we have a couple that are that are getting um more and more independent and so we want to want to continue to do that. And and then we're we're very proud that we are based in North Tulsa and we want to um continue to be primarily based in North Tulsa.

SPEAKER_00 53:31

Sometimes I pull you out of there.

SPEAKER_03 53:32

Because oh well we go all we go all over Tulsa but we like the idea of of um we like the idea that our future would be to give opportunities to the kids that are coming out of the neighborhoods that originally Jewish and I were were raised in he he was in the Dunbar district um which is really well and the Greenwood district right and um I was raised in the Phoenix district which is up around 36th Street in Peoria. So again it it's the idea of we like the idea of um of representing and uh and making people proud I mean it's really hokey sounding but no we we just love what the we would love to we love the idea that that our logo is very uh it's like a little magnet. Yeah yeah that that is very attractive to people because they kind of look like those bobbleheads right so they look playful yeah and um we've had uh we we we would love that we've actually had adults that I've said okay are you sure that maybe you're not the real Doc J have you seen that when they look at the logo yeah and they stand there going no I think I'm the real Doc J. Yeah yeah yeah yeah um and no matter what they look like before they get next to the logo afterwards they look like the Doc J. Why because a Doc J is a happy person.

SPEAKER_00 54:58

Yeah yeah right yeah and so then they become happy people too I love that I love that and I have the I have some of those magnets too by the way uh huh I do I have them so I'll I'll just say that I I look more like Doc J.

SPEAKER_03 55:15

Well actually you probably could if you yeah if we have to get you next to uh our new wraps have you have you seen them on on the Yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah they look great yeah yeah uh huh um also I think just that picture of you wanting to kind of stay in North Tulsa that kind of be your your area you're known for that's legacy. Well I mean we're I mean that most of our our customers are outside of it but yeah it's just the idea of that's uh um yeah I you know I I I was raised in a in a situation where communities community and sense of community is very important. I I love that um um I mean we go to Big Speed Jinx suburbs you know we have we know people there but in the same line I we really love that Tulsa's population is stabilized and Tulsa's population is actually starting to regrow again. Yeah and there's so much um business and and growth uh within the city limits of of Tulsa there's an excitement uh and and that's really cool yeah yeah that is really cool super that that is super cool to be excited uh and um we have we have a lot of people to thank including the people who uh will pay you to come and uh try it out yeah that's right that's right it's also remote program yes yeah hey you can't go wrong with that no you can't uh so before we close I always ask this question what is one thing you don't have fully figured out yet but you are building through anyway she got it all figured out no not all figured out I think our one of our b greatest challenges is that how do you how do you stay how do you stay comp how do you how do you grow stay competitive and and how is AI gonna fit in there? Where you want to maintain the the the personal the personal part of of of what you do um but in the same light uh you have to keep your cost down. So how do you keep your cost down and use AI so that it is actually potentially frees you up can you imagine where AI can free you can free you up so that you actually can have more personal time. Right. Right because things are being done automatically um and and then there so therefore you're not spending as much time doing it.

SPEAKER_01 57:53

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 57:54

Right? So just you know just having just using technology tools. Like example, you know like one of the things I'm looking at right now is that our guys are so much better at orally um you know doing dictations than they would ever be trying to write something down. And they all have you know four fingers and or whatever but um all thumbs um so um being able to hook in an app that has a little bit of HVAC knowledge so that you've you've trained it. Right. And and then it can actually help within their management system so you can just dictate and and it actually is smart so that so that it is anticipating and helping you say it. So that you're not it you're not spending all this time writing stuff down but you're actually communicating and you can actually spend more time with the customer. Right. Because you're not back you you've seen the guys sometimes they they come out of the house and you see them sitting in their work trucks right what are they doing? They're making notes. They're making notes yeah and sometimes they're they're there 15 minutes because you watch them you know people are watching them through their what are they doing out there and the guy's got his head down the whole time making notes. Yeah and and wouldn't it be great if we could cut down on the note time. Yeah so really understanding how AI can help you. Yeah um and um I I think that that that's really what's really key.

SPEAKER_00 59:26

This is what I said I said you're always open to learning this is the perfect example what I'm talking about. Okay so tell everyone if they want to find Doc J's where can we find you online?

SPEAKER_03 59:39

Wow well you can find us our website which is Doc J's heat and air we're easy to find um you know add in Tulsa if you want but it's Doc J's heat and air we're we're on Facebook on LinkedIn we have a have an Instagram account we need up our game on TikTok but yeah but we're we're really you can have fun on TikTok we can have some fun on there.

SPEAKER_00 1:00:01

Yes uh-huh a real reel over on TikTok all right we'll find them there and that is it for this session of the back office if this conversation gave you clarity a new angle or even just the reminder that you're not the only one navigating this then it did its job take what's useful act on it apply it and no one has it fully figured out but we're building anyway and if you found this valuable share it with another operator who's building and you can always hang out with us in between sessions at Dignify Marketing Social. I'm Delena Dillon and we will see you next time