What Is Marketing... Really?

What is marketing… really?

In this Strategy Session episode of The Back Office, Dalayna Dillon sits down with marketing professional Brad Buchert to unpack one of the most misunderstood concepts in business.

Because marketing is not just social media.
 It’s not just ads.
 And it’s definitely not just posting content.

Strong marketing is the alignment of messaging, positioning, branding, customer experience, communication, trust, and strategy — all working together toward a specific goal.

Throughout the conversation, Dalayna and Brad break down why so many businesses struggle with marketing, the difference between tactics and strategy, and why marketing problems are often actually operational problems in disguise.

They also discuss:

• Why social media is only one piece of the puzzle
• How marketing has evolved over the last several years
• Why businesses chase tactics instead of building strategy
• What strong marketing actually looks like
• And how businesses can simplify and strengthen their marketing approach

If you’ve ever felt overwhelmed, frustrated, or confused by marketing, this episode brings clarity to the conversation.

Because the goal isn’t to do everything.

It’s to communicate the right thing clearly and consistently.

No one has it fully figured out.
 But we’re building anyway.

Show Notes

Hosts: Dalayna Dillon & Brad Buchert

This month’s Strategy Session focuses on one of the most common — and most misunderstood — questions in business:

What is marketing?

Drawing from years of experience in branding, communication, strategy, and business growth, Dalayna and Brad unpack the misconceptions surrounding modern marketing and explain why effective marketing is much deeper than social media content or advertising campaigns.

This episode challenges business owners to think beyond tactics and begin viewing marketing as a complete ecosystem made up of communication, trust, positioning, customer experience, and intentional strategy.

Whether you’re a business owner, creative, entrepreneur, or marketer yourself, this conversation will help simplify marketing and provide a stronger framework for understanding how effective businesses actually grow.

In This Episode, We Discuss

• Why marketing is so misunderstood

• The difference between marketing, advertising, branding, and sales

• Why social media is not the same as marketing

• Marketing as communication and trust-building

• Why businesses often blame marketing for operational issues

• The difference between tactics and strategy

• Why businesses chase trends and platforms

• What makes marketing effective long-term

• How marketing has changed over the last 5 years

• Principles that still matter regardless of platform

• Why consistency still matters in modern marketing

• The relationship between customer experience and marketing

• What strong, aligned marketing actually looks like

• Questions every business should ask before creating content

About Strategy Sessions

Strategy Sessions are monthly episodes of The Back Office focused on deeper conversations around marketing, leadership, communication, business growth, and strategic decision-making.

These episodes are designed to help business owners think more clearly and build more intentionally.

About The Back Office

Hosted by Dalayna Dillon
Founder & Creative Director of Signify Marketing

The Back Office invites listeners into honest conversations about marketing, growth, leadership, and the real decisions shaping active businesses.

Facebook/Instagram: @signifymarketingsocial 

www.signifymarketing.social

Transcript

SPEAKER_00 0:06

Welcome to the back office. I'm Delena Dillon, the founder and creative director at Signify Marketing, and this is where you sit in on real strategy. This month is a special month for us at Signify because we're celebrating five years in business. And so I'm excited to bring you conversations with business owners who are building, learning, and figuring it out just like I have been for the last five years. So today's episode looks a little different. We kind of do this once a month. Instead of a traditional interview, I invited Brad Bucher to sit in as my co-host for a strategy session. So today we're going to be talking all about a question that sounds really simple, but honestly causes a lot of confusion. What is marketing? I'm sure you've had this question a million times.

SPEAKER_04 0:54

Can you feel the shiver that just went down my spine as you said that? It's a lot.

SPEAKER_00 0:58

Exactly. Well, some people, they in their mind it means social media, some people it means ads logos, posting content. They all have kind of a different context, but real marketing is much bigger than that. And so today, Brad Youkert and I are breaking down what marketing actually is, what most businesses misunderstand about it and why strong marketing is not just one tactic, but it's an alignment of many things that make it work together. So, Brad, first of all, welcome to the back office.

SPEAKER_03 1:28

Thank you.

SPEAKER_00 1:29

Um, to let everyone in on who you are, where you're from, all these things. Tell us a little bit about yourself and your history because you have a long history in the marketing field.

SPEAKER_04 1:38

Are you saying I'm old? My long history? Like how long is my history delayed?

SPEAKER_00 1:42

You had a lot of experience in your short 29 years.

SPEAKER_04 1:47

Well, check is in the mail for now. Uh no, thank you for having me on. Uh, really do appreciate it. Um Delena and I have worked together several times on and off uh over the years. So um she so she had mentioned um oh, also thank you for pronouncing my last name correctly.

SPEAKER_00 2:04

I've worked well, I yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_04 2:05

I've heard it. Not an easy one. Me too, several times. Um so yeah, background uh started um right out of school working for uh large brokerages, usually in the commercial print area, and then they were transitioning into uh you know true marketing, which that's a part of marketing.

SPEAKER_03 2:25

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_04 2:25

As as you've alluded to, and we'll jump way deeper into that topic. But um, you know, they were transitioning into that because you couldn't just be a printer, right? Right. That this was this was in the 90s, and that will date me, but in the 90s and early 2000s, uh, but very large companies, right? And so through that, you know, I I saw all sides of the business, the sourcing piece, the the actual uh account management as well, which is something that I kind of grew into more and more, is I would go take over a client, take over their spend, and then build a team around that that could effectively um save them money and then obviously make us money too. So I did that for about 10 years, um, and then went to another uh brokerage, same thing, uh a little bit more advanced. Uh they were uh as far as their evolution into the marketing aspect and kind of saw a little bit more of what they were doing. And this was really, you know, the social media marketing uh was really taking off at this time. It was around, right? But people realize what your return is. Yeah. Again, something we'll probably talk about for a relatively low cost.

SPEAKER_03 3:35

Right.

SPEAKER_04 3:35

So did that, um, and then I got that entrepreneurial bug and uh started just opening every time uh uh someone had a great idea, it's like, all right, we need a business behind that. We gotta go, let's go form an LLC, let's do this thing, right? So um School of Hard Knocks learned a lot of things to do, a lot of things not to do, um, some successes, some failures for sure. Um, but one of the biggest things, let me let's bring this full circle, right? And now uh telehealth. We're we're in telehealth now. So a couple years into that, and uh you know it's it's fun, it's it's definitely growing. It's only been around for about 25 years, uh, believe that or not. Um but you had mentioned marketing, and it's this massive term, right? And and a lot of people still don't understand. I know me, even being in and around the industry, it it you don't you still don't get it because you're you're siloed, right? Like I was I was a print buyer at the beginning of my career, right?

SPEAKER_00 4:31

Which that was like you said, that was like that was marketing. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_04 4:34

I think newspapers, newspapers were and and direct mail, yeah. Um surprisingly, those things are still around and and actually seeing somewhat of a comeback.

SPEAKER_03 4:43

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 4:44

Um, you know, but but going back to the term, right? It's all the things you mentioned. To me, marketing is this this overarching theme, this overarching term, right? And everything you said is that all your tactics are a part of that, but also you know, branding.

SPEAKER_03 5:01

Right.

SPEAKER_04 5:01

I can sales. I consider sales a part of marketing.

SPEAKER_03 5:04

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 5:04

Marketing's out here, sales is just yeah, how are you reaching them, right? How are you maintaining a consistent brand? That's part of marketing. You know, all those pieces all feed into what is marketing. That's why you've got a a CMO, yes, in a company. And most successful companies are are have a very good CMO.

SPEAKER_00 5:20

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_04 5:21

Um so yeah.

SPEAKER_00 5:23

Well, and what you were mentioning about how sales is a part of marketing, I think that's probably one of the biggest um misses that a lot of businesses have because they try to disconnect those. And that's when you have a lot of um is it discontinuity? What's the opposite of continuity?

SPEAKER_04 5:45

I think you I think you got it. Discontinuity? Inconsistency. Let's do that. Let's go that way.

SPEAKER_00 5:50

Yeah, then you have a lot of inconsistencies, and also, oh, this is like a soapbox for me. You don't even know if your marketing's being successful if you're not tying in the sales piece um to see how is it, how are they connecting, you know? Right. Um, I think that's a huge miss. Right, right.

SPEAKER_04 6:09

So that was especially early on. Um we're gonna jump all over, I would assume, because that's this is marketing. That's what we do. Um, but so that connection is key. I think analytics, right? So early on, marketing as a whole, right? Think think uh madmen.

SPEAKER_03 6:28

Yeah, yeah, so it was huge.

SPEAKER_04 6:30

They spent a ton of money, but they were telling the customer, this is what you've got to have, this is what you need, go get it. If you don't, you're not cool or you're lesser than whatever. Yeah, you know, whatever the the theme of the day was. But they really didn't have analytics behind if the marketing was working besides sales, right? Right, right. If if sales are working, if sales are up, marketing is obviously working, right? And if sales are down, oh something wrong with marketing, right? Not necessarily the case, but but that is really the view, and that view is continued and really is still out there.

SPEAKER_00 7:04

Yes, yes, right, very much so.

SPEAKER_04 7:06

The great thing, and and working with you, uh you're very, very good at this, is how do you tie the analytics to it? How do you how are you able to track?

SPEAKER_03 7:14

Right?

SPEAKER_04 7:14

That's really key for a business owner or a CFO in making those decisions, uh, because you're gonna have to prove that that this is worth the money.

SPEAKER_03 7:24

Right.

SPEAKER_04 7:24

And sometimes you're gonna have to go out on a limb um before you can run those analytics and know that something's working or track it back to back to you know where those sales are coming from.

SPEAKER_03 7:33

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 7:34

Um I think something to mention here as we both have that entrepreneurial spirit, we've been a part of uh you know small startups. Um I've been a part of very large companies, so I'm not I'm not sure if you have or not. I would assume probably so. Um startups. If you are not giving yourself a line item and a and a substantial marketing budget, you're shooting yourself the foot. So as you're as you're trying to put together, what it what's your, you know, what does that line look like for you on your pro forma? Make sure you're including it. Make sure you have the money for it. Look into it, actually explore and see what it's gonna cost before doing this. Because if you go in and and you can't pull sales in or you don't have an existing market or or a network that is just beating down your door, a lot of startups fail because of that. I've seen it. I've done it. In fact, I've done this.

SPEAKER_00 8:30

So well, I actually shared about this. It's been some time, but I kind of did a little emphasis on this on the socials because a hundred percent people think, oh, well, you have to pay for, you know, line items-wise, you have to pay for electricity and water and employees, and before they know it, all of their revenue is going towards that. And they're like, Well, whenever I am making more, I will start doing marketing.

SPEAKER_04 8:57

Horrible, horrible mistake.

SPEAKER_00 8:58

Yes, because it oh man, yeah, because then you're wanting to get all of this success, but you're actually not even setting yourself up for success. Because it's not that people don't, I say this a lot of times, it's not that people don't want to support you.

SPEAKER_03 9:12

Right.

SPEAKER_00 9:12

It's not that they don't want your product, it's that they don't know about you. They don't know what you do.

SPEAKER_04 9:17

Oh, you very well said. And here let me ask you a question. Like when okay, if there's a downturn in revenue or sales go down, what are the first areas that are cut?

SPEAKER_00 9:29

100% marketing. Every time it's gone.

SPEAKER_04 9:30

It's every time. Mistake. Yeah. Now I can see if you're in dire straits and and you're trying to save a company, but even then, what brings unless you've got just a crazy good sell staff, which if you did, probably wouldn't be in the situation. So I, you know, I just just again a mistake that I've seen and I've made. I've made this mistake because it's easy to make. Yeah. You know, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 9:54

I mean, I mean it makes sense to figure out okay, is there more economical ways we can get some fast wins whenever you're in a strapped season? Like, what are some fast wins? There's there are things that you can do for marketing that are low cost or no cost, but they're gonna honestly they take more hustle, they take more legwork, but you can do them. And I think you should do those with your budget, you know, always do all of it. You're like, what's the most important thing? All of it's important.

SPEAKER_04 10:22

I think you're in and in school, you know, it was called marketing mix for school for me was a long, long time ago.

SPEAKER_00 10:27

And you didn't even mention you're very proud, Arkansas.

SPEAKER_04 10:29

I am hey, Walton College of Business, right here. So uh we have given that school a lot of money. Yeah. So uh I can say that. No, uh, I I I think that um as you're looking at your marketing mix, right, Belina, you just mentioned that the the balance and the and the the way that you're combining those tactics, right? And you also mentioned there's some things that can spike. You need something fast, right? There's usually gonna be a give and take, right? Because if you see that, those probably aren't gonna be long-term sometimes versus some other tactics. Again, we're gonna talk about tactics, some other tactics that um are a long time or a long-term play, right? Right, right. But very, very prominent, and you really just can't go without them, right? Right. And but the mix of what you're doing, a tactic mix is really uh kind of key, and that's gonna be different for every type of business, right?

SPEAKER_00 11:22

Yeah, a hundred percent. So when you mentioned um, you know, how when funding is down, marketing gets cut, I can attest like probably the most realistic um thing I can attest to this that affected me personally was I was working with a it was a global company, so they have a global presence. Um, but they were a lot of their budget was going off of government grants. And um I think so. This is a reflecting back, I I mentioned in the intro that it's five years of business. So, you know, this time I've like been reflecting on all of my like failure, not failure, do you know what I'm saying? I I hate using that word, but yes, things I could have done differently.

SPEAKER_02 12:05

There you go.

SPEAKER_00 12:06

And successes, and one of them was um, because this business, they were wanting and paying for a lot of my attention and effort and time, a lot of time. But I think, but I so you know, if someone's wanting to bring you in in that capacity, you're like, okay. And um, when you know that they're getting govern government grants, you're like, okay, there's money coming because you know that's a good sign. If you didn't know, if someone tells you they want to work with you and they're getting government funding, you're like, hi.

SPEAKER_04 12:38

Yeah, their their pockets are not gonna get thin quickly. Or or we'll see where their story is going on.

SPEAKER_00 12:43

No, but they brought me on a large capacity, so that meant I gave them more of my attention. And then when their government fund, first of all, there were some other complications that um this they were a good example of like people who are always shifting the target. And so, like, honestly, this is not an exaggeration, and it's not to give them shade. This is just the way, honestly, kind of personalities were at play here, and whatever they can do whatever they want. Um, but like every single way, running a business is hard.

SPEAKER_04 13:14

It is hard. I don't know if you guys uh know that out there, but yeah, for sure.

SPEAKER_00 13:18

I mean, I could from Friday to Monday, I could come in and find out we're going a completely not a little, like I'm saying, not even a little different direction, like a completely different direction. And so I on a weekly, bi-weekly basis was recalculating okay, okay, we're this is the messaging, this is the target. So how are we going to reframe these the campaign that I was building to match that? But what I will say, so they did run out of government the well, that their contract had ended.

SPEAKER_03 13:51

Sure.

SPEAKER_00 13:52

They didn't have to tell me that, and they did not tell me that. And so um it got to a point where they were waiting on the next contract, and so the first thing they cut was well, they I'll say they were very kind, they cut their own salaries as well, but they cut my services, which is fine. I mean, that's kind of the nature of have it being what I do, like people, they're not gonna stay with you forever necessarily, um, because different seasons of business, but it was very quick, and also I had dedicated so much of my time. I had even I'd brought in other people to handle other accounts because they were needing so much attention. And so while for me, I'm like, okay, I'm not gonna do that again in that same way, like I'll restructure it in the way that I would do that. But my point in saying that is that was a huge chunk that they were like, we can immediately get rid of that because they actually had a CMO, right?

SPEAKER_04 14:43

And they were still having me come in, but and function almost like a CMO as well, but they already had one. Correct.

SPEAKER_00 14:50

So that but that just shows you all sizes of businesses, all kinds of businesses face that same temptation, or sometimes you just have to do some make some changes.

SPEAKER_04 15:01

But um I I saw the same thing, uh actually just the reverse. So um I had a colleague, uh part of my long-term network, that um took over a company and was uh was immediately tasked with uh finding uh more efficient ways to to use the money, right? Very old company, the company had been around since 1939, right? So they came in and they let their CMO go. Um and I got a call and said, you know, come be this, but not, right? So uh or or way less than what they were paying a CMO. You know, we were able to consult and and use stuff for them, and and that worked, but going to the uh the other part of that same story is you mentioned early on, I think you said this, but marketing is really your strategy, right? Right marketing as a whole is your strategy, and all these other pieces need to flow into that strategy. Now it's okay to change the path of those tactics, yeah, but it is not okay to change your marketing strategy weekly.

SPEAKER_00 16:05

No, don't do that. It's done. Like you're shooting yourself in the foot every single week.

SPEAKER_04 16:10

Yes, and in fact, a really strong person to have on the team, you know, whatever your your leadership team is, is someone that can take a step back, not really be phased by the the up and down, which we will all see. Yeah, but okay, step back and maintain that strategy, make the small adjustments with with their team, make the adjustments, but still stand strong on that strategy because that strategy should have taken a lot of time, yeah, a lot of effort, a lot of uh resources, honestly, to put in place. And if you've taken all that time and everything to go through that and put this in place, you've got buy-in by all the key stakeholders. Don't just give up on it, be on that. You just don't, you just do that's that's a big, big mistake.

SPEAKER_00 16:54

Yeah, yeah, you can make some tweaks, but yeah, it it can you and sometimes you can't even see it play out because you've changed it too early.

SPEAKER_03 17:03

Yep.

SPEAKER_00 17:04

So I'll get your take on this. Hopefully, you won't think less of me for telling you this, for admitting this.

SPEAKER_03 17:09

Oh boy. Uh oh.

SPEAKER_00 17:10

But um, I am a watcher, a viewer of the Real House of Wives of Beverly Hills.

SPEAKER_03 17:16

Oh my. Okay.

SPEAKER_00 17:16

Okay, don't let that taint your view of me.

SPEAKER_04 17:18

Got it, got it. I'm with you though. I'm gonna keep all that back here. We're good.

SPEAKER_00 17:23

So the I think that there was something that happened. So, first of all, one of the ladies on there, she is a C she, I don't know what she currently is, but basically she has worked with massive um companies like Netflix, like uh, I forget the other. There was a couple like top ones, but she it's um she also did this, which you would love if you've never watched this TV show. You would love this TV show. Um, she has a TV show with Jimmy Fallon. Fallon. Is that right? I'm getting fact checked behind the camera. Okay, called The Brand. What's it called? She's gonna look up the she's gonna look it up, but you would love it. So basically, it's like a uh competition show where you go and you make pitches. I think I've her name is Bose. What's it called? On brand. On brand. I think I've seen it you gotta watch it.

SPEAKER_04 18:13

I think I've seen not I haven't watched it, but I've seen uh trailers for this.

SPEAKER_00 18:16

You would love it. You would love it. So, anyways, that's who I'm talking about. It was funny. So she said in the reunion she was talking about um to Andy Cohen who made a uh you know, a face like in disagreement with her. He she was saying that how a lot of businesses, because she has been a CMO, she's worked with a lot of people, a lot of CMOs don't have a long tenure because she was getting, you know, some gossip and stuff about her not staying anywhere very long. And so she explained on her social media, which I thought it had some good insight, but I want to hear what you think about this. She explained that some um, you know, large, high producing, high capacity CMOs, a lot of times they don't necessarily stay for super long, like two years, three years, whatever. Because a lot of times they are brought in to do a specific thing to get the company over whatever lull they're in. And then they usually are out because anything that happens beyond that, they're gonna get blamed. Marketing gets blamed for every failure. Yep. And so they get out, they mission accomplished and they get out. And so Andy Cohen like made a face like that's not true. But I was like, I think it might be true. I think that they do get blamed, and that's sounds realistic.

SPEAKER_04 19:26

I definitely think they do, excuse me, because and and the reason behind that, I've seen this, is a lot of times your CEO or or obviously COO, um, or members of the board, depending on where they come from, are operators. Yeah, right, they're operational people, so you know it's kind of easy to side with oh well operations, we haven't changed yet.

SPEAKER_03 19:48

Right, right, right, right.

SPEAKER_04 19:48

What did you do in marketing? Yeah, right. Um, I going back to your story about her in particular, a lot of times a CMO is brought in for you know a major I've seen this, but it's like, hey, we know that in 12 months, and in the next six to twelve months, we're going to go purchase uh you know these these other um brands. Yeah, let's say. Yeah. I was in grocery for a long time. So uh and and it's very I wouldn't say cutthroat, but over the last uh twenty five years, excuse me, over the last twenty-five years, they're just the big ones are buying out the small ones. So the success the the profitable ones are buying out the less profitable. Um and when you can see it's like, okay, we're about to go purchase, so it's a project. It's it's a very large, very complicated project, but we're gonna go purchase this brand that has 1200 locations uh uh maybe not exactly on the same path from a marketing standpoint. Well, our CMO is is for any number of reasons, is ready to go out or is looking at something else or whatever. Well, we need someone that's done this, right? Right, they know how to lead through this type of let's call it project, very, very large project, but still project. Um and then you know, but maybe this this marketing person is is really great at that and setting the stage for success. Um but you know, and a lot of times I've actually seen them go into that, knowing it's like, hey, this is a this is a two-year, right, two to three year play.

SPEAKER_03 21:32

Yeah for me, right?

SPEAKER_04 21:33

As a CMO, this is a two to three year play. I'm gonna guide them through this, steady the ship, and then I'm gonna move on.

SPEAKER_03 21:40

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 21:40

Or or I'm gonna be done. You know, because a lot of times, you know, depending on which these these C suite level people aren't getting younger and younger, which is amazing. Exactly. Um I I used to love that when I was uh younger and younger, but uh now I'm actually getting to the age of uh I I look like I should be there, right? More, more, more gray. But um I think That's part of it. Is you will see that. Um, and then the smallest thing, it's like, well, this person, you know, their plan was to be out in 18 months, so things aren't going, that's that's fine. We can we can do that, we can move something else. That could be the right call, yeah. Actually, yeah, you know, especially if they were if they were up front, like this is what I'm doing. Um, or again, if you're doing that and you if this is gonna shift dramatically shift your entire marketing strategy, oh yeah, that needs to be that's a very, very large decision.

SPEAKER_00 22:33

Yeah, yeah, a hundred percent. Well, I think that it is what you were saying, it's actually pretty wide. Like if you know you're gonna be going through a specific shift or change or whatever growth, whatever, get someone in there that has done it before. No shade to who's currently doing it, but like if they've not walked through that before, at least get some consulting, you know, with someone who's been there done that.

SPEAKER_04 22:55

Yes, yeah, absolutely. There's there's a lot of strength there.

SPEAKER_00 22:58

I kind of want to go back a little bit because um it intrigues.

SPEAKER_04 23:02

Can I stop for one second? You got a DJ board right here. Are we about to start just wicker wicker?

SPEAKER_00 23:06

Well, I could make you sound like a robot. I could definitely do that.

SPEAKER_04 23:09

I already sound like a robot. You're not gonna have to try hard. So sorry, sorry. I hope you can come back to your point.

SPEAKER_00 23:15

Yeah, no, it's fine. Um, I whenever you were talking about your beginning in marketing, I want to hear what it was like being in the places you were in as it transitioned from again, like you said, print marketing is still a thing. It's it still might be a thing that you should be doing. I don't know. It depends on where you're at. But where there was a huge shift on the inside view from that print marketing to, oh my goodness, I call it the wild, wild west of the internet, like social media, and how that shifted everything that marketing did and looked like.

SPEAKER_04 23:51

Yeah, I think uh it started with and I am old enough to see like, okay, this big panic of well, this digital, just digital is all encompassing digital, let's call it that, right?

SPEAKER_03 24:04

Yep, yep.

SPEAKER_04 24:04

So digital is coming and it's the latest and greatest, and you know, costs were coming down, and and you know, people were seeing some really good results, and so there's a panic of 90% of our business is print. Yeah, we're so screwed.

SPEAKER_03 24:22

Yeah, right.

SPEAKER_04 24:22

So I did I saw that, and from upper level people that have been around for a long time, but had only been around in print.

SPEAKER_03 24:28

In print.

SPEAKER_04 24:28

So so you kind of saw a little bit of a panic phase, um, and then immediate, you know, reactionary, we've got to put money into this, we've got to do this, um, which they did need to, but if they were a bit more strategic about it, probably would have been a little bit less rocky. But you get through the panic and you're, you know, just like any business, if if you have clients and they need, let's say you're really you're focused on these services. Well, you it's like someone wants, hey, can you do this? Depending on your size, it's like, yes, yes, you can figure it out. Right. Or or no, but I can do it for you. You will figure it out and we'll put it in place. So I think a lot of that was what was happening. Yeah, just figuring it out as or if if the company was large enough, they would go and they would purchase, right? They they go and say, Okay, Signify is really well known for being here already, but they're they're early, they're they're only five years in. Yeah. So maybe because I'm a billion-dollar company, I can go and and buy them and have not only their expertise and someone to guide us into this next area, um, but I'm gonna get their portfolio business as well.

SPEAKER_03 25:40

Right.

SPEAKER_04 25:40

And I can sell my products or whatever my core competence competencies are to them.

SPEAKER_03 25:45

Yes.

SPEAKER_04 25:46

Um, so I saw some of that too, uh, which both of the very large print brokerages, they did very well. It was rocky, I saw the rockiness, um, but they transitioned, and then both of them were actually eventually bought out by the largest in the world at that time. Wow. So those guys really, really good job because they made absolute, absolute tons of money. Um, but they they lived on, right? The the their products, their services lived on even within the stratosphere of the new very, very large companies.

SPEAKER_03 26:16

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 26:16

So so they did though. And those companies only surviving got bigger because they did exactly what I just said. They went and found Signify and said, okay, we know we've got to be in this area. Who's out there? What they did is a what cost-benefit analysis. Like, how long would it take us to build out this entire department, which we know nothing about, by the way? How long would it take us to do that? Or how long would it take us to transition a new partner in a lot of partnerships happen? Um, so I've seen all those. And and you know, all of them put in my um the my experiences that I saw, all of them put so much emphasis on it that they were all successful because they they knew they had to uh they had to be there. You had to be there. Um, and by the way, you mentioned this, like Prent is not dead. No. Um, we have let's see, it's been years now since uh it's probably been 10 years since I left the the grocery world. But I had one client that was spending about $56 million just newspaper ads.

SPEAKER_03 27:23

Just newspaper ads. That's crazy.

SPEAKER_04 27:26

And that company went and bought their rival and they quadrupled in size.

SPEAKER_03 27:31

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 27:32

Right. So, you know, even if you've got some some uh savings from scale, I mean they're spending a hundred and change, million dollars on new newspapers right now. So print going away, not seeing it, not seeing it. Some industries wouldn't survive without it.

SPEAKER_00 27:46

Yeah, it is good. And it maybe that might even be more overwhelming for people to be like, oh crap, I should be doing this too. It's like maybe, you know, maybe. But I I think that marketing has changed so much. Like I've seen huge changes post-COVID. Like, there's very few conversations that I have on this podcast that don't at some point bring in COVID because it shifted so it shifted so much in our world, in our culture, in business, and in marketing. It shifted so much. But you know, marketing is like I feel like it's so different in this, even the way you were describing it earlier about like, you know, how it originally was of them telling you what you need and you've got to do this. But marketing now, it's obviously communication, but it's really it's like holding someone's hand, guiding them through, you know, it's so crazy how much it shifted.

SPEAKER_04 28:41

I would take it a step further. You're nail on the head here. And this is what digital did, right? So that is what marketing was advertising, really. Uh, think mad men.

SPEAKER_03 28:52

Right, right, right.

SPEAKER_04 28:53

And now if you are not listening to your customer and doing what they say to some extent, right? Giving them what they need, what they want, yeah, instead of telling them, you know, you can still kind of guide them, but that's where I think it has shifted. And I think a lot of a big reason for that is like back in the day, how could you get how could you really know your customer? Focus groups, yeah, yeah, yeah, having people fill out forms, you know, tough and and really tough to get that scale to really know them, right? Now you can send something out and you've got hundreds of thousands of data points that tell you this is, you know, this is my ideal customer, and this is what she wants.

SPEAKER_03 29:38

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 29:38

Right now, I need to listen and and speak to her in that way. Make sure that she knows that I'm gonna provide for her. So, marketing, let's get back to the definition, right? It is everything, your sales, your branding, your your your tactics of outreach. So, to be able to do that, reach, get your brand out there, reach them, let them know who you are, let them know that uh you are the solution for whatever they're looking for, right? And then do that in an efficient, profitable way. Yeah, that's what your your CMO is charged with as a company, right?

SPEAKER_03 30:16

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 30:17

So that the digital game, when digital came up, I think that was one of the biggest changes is now you're able to listen very easily, listen to your end user, listen to your customer, yes, and and then adjust your strategy accordingly. Right. Because you still gotta do that. Let's say, okay, I've got a hundred thousand of my customers telling me, hey, you need this, I want this. Yeah, well, my strategy doesn't say that. Yeah, so I'm not gonna, I'm not gonna do that, which I will, I will, you've got to be flexible.

SPEAKER_03 30:50

Right.

SPEAKER_04 30:50

And I mentioned earlier, so I'm kind of going against myself, that someone to that stalwart, right, to stand the ground and maintain your strategy. Right. But your strategy has to speak to your customer. Yes if it doesn't, I mean you're gone. Yeah, you're gone.

SPEAKER_00 31:06

Yeah, 100%. And I think I I don't know how much this plays into it, but I do think going back to like you use madmen, going back not that far, but even you know, to what do you think? The 90s? What do you think the big shift was 90s? Was the digital?

SPEAKER_04 31:22

Yeah, so late late 90s, and then you again the the the speed of the shift is all it's still shifting. Right, right, right. We you know that better than I do even. Um, but it started then, I think, late 90s, and I was I was in the the workforce and getting my feet under me on in my career um at that time. So I did see you know early the early pieces of you know how that was shifting.

SPEAKER_03 31:45

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 31:46

Um, it was a massive shift, but it was also compared to today's standards, gradual.

SPEAKER_03 31:52

Right, right. Now it's so now all the time.

SPEAKER_04 31:54

You gotta have it. You absolutely have to have it. And not only that, but I think if you're winning out there in your industry, you are agile. Again, you're not shifting your entire strategic focus, yeah, but you're reading your customer. Yeah, yeah, and you're able to make those tactics tweaks. This is something you're very good at. Look at your analytics and adjust.

SPEAKER_03 32:19

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 32:19

Now, your overall message shouldn't shift a ton unless your customer is shifting a ton. Right. Right? And that's part of your strategy. So that needs to stay the course with some guidelines, right? But um knowing today versus tomorrow versus yesterday, yeah, what are the tactics that are getting people? What's coming? If you can predict that, I mean you will be successful. Um and then how do you utilize it, right? So so again, we're we're shifting to tactics again. And that's what digital did. But digital in itself just brought a million different tactics, and new ones are are showing up, you know, at least every couple of months.

SPEAKER_03 32:57

Yes.

SPEAKER_04 32:58

So uh again, it the it's it's vital. We all know it's vital and how you use it.

SPEAKER_00 33:02

It is, and I think that probably going like back in the day, people a lot of times you were telling people what they they were lacking knowledge, so you were telling them what they needed to know, but now people have so much access to information. They don't they sometimes they you need to still educate on who what you do and things like that in different ways, but like people can get the knowledge now. You're trying to earn their trust.

SPEAKER_04 33:26

Yes, yes. Oh, that's very well said. Well, I think it's so a perfect example, right? Because there are certain areas where it's either brand awareness or product awareness, right? So look at uh GLPs.

SPEAKER_00 33:39

Yes, right. So you know a thing or two.

SPEAKER_04 33:41

Yeah, GLPs have been around for a long time, right? They they were uh used uh with with uh diabetes uh patients, right? And but then it was found that these these meds also could uh lead to weight loss, right? In our country, that's uh that's that's a big want, right? And and a big need, honestly. Well at the beginning, people did not know right that these medications, these treatments were that. Yeah, so yeah, there was a massive undertaking and you started seeing it absolutely everywhere, but a massive undertaking of letting everyone know. Now what the key was then, which I don't know, what is this 10 years ago? Less. The key is okay, I'm telling you what this is. Ooh, this is awesome. That's something you want, great. Here's my name. You want to be tied to that, right? If you can be the the early, uh not really an early adopter, but the early uh one to uh lend yourself to that brand awareness with that product awareness, it's really strong because look at look at some of the brands that are out there, and we don't even think GLPs necessarily, we think Ozempic.

unknown 34:56

Right.

SPEAKER_04 34:56

Wagovy, right, right, and now with with compounders and such, now you know semaglutide, terzepatide, and the upcoming reditrutide, right? But I think the so early in a product lifecycle, there is the awareness where you gotta get out there, it's like telling people what this is.

SPEAKER_03 35:12

Right.

SPEAKER_04 35:13

Hey, you may want this, do you? Are you my customer? Yeah, great. Then it goes exactly into what you said. Um now most people know what these things are. How can you tie yourself into it and then sh differentiate yourself with uh between the other brands, right? Right, and reaching that customer.

SPEAKER_00 35:30

Yeah, well, it makes me think of two Botox. People call inject all injectables Botox. That's a brand. Yeah, you know what I'm saying? And the same thing is true with Ozimic and and and everything like people might be like, is this Ozimic? And technically it's not, it's an it's an it's another brand or another whatever, but like they just say Ozympic because that's what they know. Botox, I think that's so funny. Like everyone just says Botox. Absolutely, but there's other brands and everything like that, but they took they took over.

SPEAKER_04 36:04

Oh yeah, absolutely. And and kudos to them, right, for for doing so. But there's I mean and and this is another shift, right? So um Daxify. Um, and it's a it's I I am I again I'm not a doctor, yeah, but the difference is it's a it's a competitor, but it is the the new Botox. Okay, and it replaces a certain piece with a peptide.

SPEAKER_00 36:28

Okay, right.

SPEAKER_04 36:29

So so early studies are showing um uh the product lasting longer, um, uh lesser side effects and that kind of stuff. So that's kind of cool. And that's just I'm I'm learning these things being more in the compounding world now. Um, but I know it's already starting to be out there.

SPEAKER_00 36:46

Um, so if you didn't know, yeah, Daxify, look for that two X's. Look it up or something.

SPEAKER_04 36:51

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 36:52

So what have you seen? I know I mentioned having post-COVID shifts. What are some of the biggest shifts that you've noticed in this new phase? Like what are some of the differences that you see before and after?

SPEAKER_04 37:05

Yeah, yeah. Um, I think obviously, you know, COVID drove us into a very digital-centric where we weren't already, yeah. Uh which we we kind of were, but if we weren't already, it was even more so. Because what went away was all your what I have always considered the strongest and maybe most difficult parts of marketing would be your your live events, your real touch points, your personality, you know, being able to get there, sales, face-to-face sales, right? So I think that took a big hit. So you saw uh which there was already a great shift, you saw um an even larger shift into that. Um you had a lot uh people's time a lot more because I think the average uh the average screen time went up like 45%. Something crazy. For like a five-year period, right? Um, I mean we're we're just out of that.

SPEAKER_01 38:00

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 38:00

So I saw that uh for sure, but where people were saying, and and I probably said this at some point, like it'll never we'll never go back to that. You did see uh uh an a rise back into some of those more personal uh touches, right? Concierge medicine, um, white glove approach to all these things. Um you saw that when we came out of it. Um and I think a lot of that's just to if you're just thinking from a pure consumer standpoint, is and we live, let's face it, we live in a place that was probably less affected than most other parts of this country.

SPEAKER_03 38:37

Sure.

SPEAKER_04 38:38

But even for us, when we really had everything lifted and really got back out there, there was a there was a shift of well, now I I want to do that because what if I lose it again? What if I lose my ability to get out there? So I think marketers saw the same thing. So you saw a a a surge, if you will, in some of these live events, you know, as things as things really cleared up, yeah, you saw that spike back up. And we didn't mention that earlier, but that is still a big piece, um, depending on what type of product and services you offer, right? Any kind of live event. And and you really, in my opinion, you get your your uh stickiest customers that way, your longest, longest.

SPEAKER_00 39:14

That you've made been able to impress make an impression like on the digital side, we talk about impressions, yep. But whenever you have an in-person impression, it's much stronger. It is, it is.

SPEAKER_04 39:25

So I think you saw the shift and then the shift back, but it it in my opinion, it will level back out, right? And and all we're gonna continually deal with will never stop is innovation, right? So and most of the innovations are gonna be on on the digital virtual side, right? Um probably because of the reach, the scalability, yeah, right. Um, the cost. So those are some of the things I saw, uh, and just kind of predictions. It's not a huge prediction because I think we can all kind of see what's happening.

SPEAKER_00 39:56

So do you have any hot takes or predictions that you have like that you want to drop right now? Of like things that are you think are gonna evolve or come?

unknown 40:05

Oh my gosh.

SPEAKER_04 40:06

Um I mean the big keyword right now, especially if you're in the stock market, is AI.

SPEAKER_03 40:12

Yeah, of course.

SPEAKER_04 40:13

So so uh and it's not who has AI because everyone has access to it, right? Yeah. How are you using it, right? And right now, what it already is is is a very efficient way to make things much more efficient. It's a cost savings maneuver uh from a marketer standpoint. Um and I I am not an AI, you know, professional at all. Uh I should be much better at it. But I think that's the big thing now. Um, and again, if you watch the stock market at all, whereas we saw this big shift, uh again, let's let's look at the last five years. You had the cryptocurrencies and stuff like that. Now your most valuable pieces are those that are front runners on the AI game.

SPEAKER_03 40:54

Right. Right.

SPEAKER_04 40:55

That can mean a million different things, right? Right, right. The companies that are producing the uh processors that that fuel the um uh the mining that means uh are are worth absolute insane amounts of money. So I think that I think that will continue to evolve. Um, you know, some people are are afraid of that. I think it's it's right now it's who can use it the best, who can uh turn that into uh who can align it with their strategy, yes, and then stay ahead of that game and wait, wait, wait.

SPEAKER_00 41:27

So AI is not supposed to give us our strategy?

SPEAKER_04 41:29

Oh, is it is it? Oh, am I wrong? No, no, no. I think there's way too much reliance on that for sure.

SPEAKER_00 41:38

Yeah. Well, and I so just because I know like basically people owning businesses, running businesses, especially when it goes to their marketing, they I think probably the first place they go to AI for, first thing that they go to AI for is like um content writing. So my tip with AI, I you know, whatever. If you want to use I AI great, two things. Either train your AI in your branding, in your messaging, you know, make sure the AI platform that you're using knows who you are really, really well. Like basically, if if it was, it could predict what you were gonna say. Or don't just copy and paste from AI because I promise you, I can if I am like whether on a website or scrolling on social media, whatever, um, you can spot AI content, like messaging so easily. And it doesn't have to be that way. Right. First of all, either train your AI because you it learns with you, it only learns with the information you give it. Train it in how you want your brand to sound and who your brand is talking to, all of those things. And or probably both, um, don't just copy and paste. Like if you if it gets you started, change that. Do not leave it exactly as it is, because some people will find it and be like, oh, that wasn't even them. That's AI. You know what I mean? It feels like you're hearing from a robot and not from the brand. It's you can tell whenever messaging is not consistent.

SPEAKER_04 43:17

Yeah, uh, and and I would say, and you can still see it, right? And and don't get me wrong, it will probably I'm talking more about video content right now. Yeah, that's pretty easy to to to find, but and don't get me wrong, it's getting a lot better. It's it's kind of crazy where it's come from. But I think you said it the best, and that's that it's not it should not be your strategy. Yeah, because you need to know your strategy. Yeah, right. And if if if so now can it help you, and again, that's why I put it the way I did, like be more efficient.

SPEAKER_00 43:44

Yes, yes, yes, yes.

SPEAKER_04 43:45

Once it learns, and AI learns, yeah. Once it learns that the speech patterns, the uh all those kind of things, still be very cautious. Right. And and we're not really that close to to where we can just let it go and and do it's not you.

SPEAKER_00 43:59

No, right? Not gonna be human, it's never gonna be human.

SPEAKER_04 44:02

From a from a and that's from both a uh company standpoint from the the client, you know, from our client and a marketer standpoint as well is be very cautious with that. Don't let it shift you because it's easy. Yeah, and it is, don't get me wrong, it it's easy. Um make sure you know what you're doing, make sure that you're you you have a hand on it because exactly what you alluded to, it it changes and it's not I mean we're still out there to where it's making a lot of mistakes, yeah, right? Yeah, and remember where the information is coming from. Right now you can, you're saying teach it, yeah. You can designate where that information comes from. Great, do that, yeah, number one, yeah, because that's what it's learning. Um and it should be you, right? So you can set it up to learn from your uh depository of uh information. Right. So do that, but let me go back to where you started, but it is not creating your strategy. You should not be creating your strategy. Now, can we give you some thinking points and adjustments to that? Absolutely. And and I've seen that. Like you use it, you put it in there and and you know, you prompt a certain way. Well, it may a light bulb may come on. Now, from there, just be sure you're taking your own thoughts and going into that. Now, and again, I just I think the way AI needs to be used is from an efficiency standpoint from a from a um light bulb. I I love the what it can do. Um, and you can even, I mean, some formatting type stuff.

SPEAKER_00 45:38

Oh, formatting make yeah, they make it super easy.

SPEAKER_04 45:41

That's simple and and I think you can trust it, you still got to check everything in there, but um, that's where I would be cautious. But I I don't you can't avoid it. You cannot avoid it.

SPEAKER_00 45:50

Right, right, right. I think that it's great for giving different ideas. Now, I will say a lot of times I might be like, that's stupid, but like it might also make you think about something differently or give you ideas. Like, um, for example, even whenever I first was in concept of like, okay, I want to start a podcast, what would this look like? What would the, you know, what is the messaging? And so, you know, I put in all the I put in a lot of information of what I wanted, what it was supposed to be, blah, blah, blah. And honestly, I think it took about a hundred and some suggestions for me to figure out exactly um the positioning, I guess I would say. So it was like, okay, I liked this, even the title, the back office. It was, I was, I was just asking, like, what kind what was some titles that you might think of with you know, this this kind of content or whatever? It was sending me way out in left field. And so it was like, oh, I like that word and I like this word and I like this position of that, and bring blending it all together. It gave me a lot before it gave me anything good.

SPEAKER_03 46:54

Sure.

SPEAKER_00 46:55

And and I think that as long as you're using it like this, um, it it really will you'll still be original, you'll still be yourself and have your fingerprints on it because, like I said, at the end of the day, AI is not human, and your customers are human. They want the human element, and only you as a human being can kind of relate to their pain points, the emotional things they might be going through in making whatever decision to you know, shop or buy or whatever. Um, so you bring that human element into it, and it is not replaceable.

SPEAKER_04 47:31

So, so two things there is one people know, right? We already said this. They know when they're seeing to this point, they know when they're seeing AI messaging, they know when they're seeing for sure AI videos.

SPEAKER_03 47:43

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 47:44

Um, and don't get me wrong, when a hippopotamus head starts on this side and you know, that's an easy one. But okay, so but but think about it this way people don't want that. No, and in fact, right now they're seeing it's like, oh, you're taking a shortcut. Okay. Same thing. Uh, a salesman, sales pitch comes out. I don't want to be sold to, and I've been in the game so long that as soon as I start filling that sales piece, I'm checking out. Yeah, like I'm gonna be, I'm gonna try not to be rude.

SPEAKER_00 48:13

Yeah, I kind of feel bad for anybody trying to sell to you because you can spot it a mile away.

SPEAKER_04 48:17

Absolutely. And don't get me wrong, that's not everyone, but if you've been around this type, I I say this game, right? But this all let's just say marketing. Yeah, if you've been in it long enough, you've seen it, you've seen what people are trying to do, you see, and and for me it's like a game. I'm trying to uh beat them to the punchline. I'm trying to say, oh, I know where you're going with this. I got you. Um, so but people don't want that. So I you know, even in in face-to-face sales, people want someone that is uh not that. What's the opposite of that? They're they're genuine, yeah, right, and they're having thoughts and they are interested in you. This is the best salespeople I've ever seen, don't sell, right? They don't sell, they talk to you, they offer solutions, maybe, yeah, but they're really trying to understand you and your business, right? And AI doesn't do that at all. And I I don't know that it ever will. So it you know, if if we can mess up face to face, human to human, and and see that AI doesn't have a chance in that. Yeah. So just keep that in mind, right? Keep that in mind, not only if you're just a salesperson, right? Because hey, hear me, this is out there and it happens a lot. But as we're shifting uh more and more into the AI play, make sure that that messaging is not coming across that way.

SPEAKER_03 49:34

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 49:34

Um try to stay ahead of the game and see what's out there and and look at yourself as a consumer. Second question, this is for you. So what are you seeing from you know, SEO has been a tactic or whatever, right? Where are you seeing the shift from an AEO or it's called eight different things, but um the the optimization for uh AI engines, right? Where are you seeing that? And and kind of follow-up there is the growth, the shift, and then the money spend. Where where are you seeing that now compared to where it was? And then, you know, is it gonna continue going that way and how fast yeah, I think so.

SPEAKER_00 50:19

I actually had someone recently asked uh the other day ask me to help them. They want they're like, we need to re you know bulk up our Google page, SEO, and all this kind of stuff. And it kind of gives me some pause because not because it's useless. Like all of these strat all these tactics in your strategy are not useless, but some of them you might want to pump the brakes on because they might not be as effective. So really, you know, Google took a major hit when they integrated AI into Google because everyone was trying so hard. I mean, they were paying a lot of money in, you know, optimizing SEO, um, getting the top of Google. And then Google brought in AI where it doesn't matter if you're paying to be top of Google, their AI answer is gonna go above you. And people, if they click in that, they're not gonna click on yours. You know, you might end up in Google's AI list, right? But you see what I'm saying? I think that um again, don't I'm not saying don't worry about Google. I'm saying maybe pump in my like if someone was asking me best strategy like you just did, I would say pump the brakes a little bit on Google, focus on um reviews, which has never gone out of style, but Google is relying much more on the Google reviews for their AI generation of results. So I would say that focus more on Google reviews. Again, don't only do Google reviews, but do Google reviews and making sure your website is super good on your SEO, you know, all of the all of the top hits on that, because that is where that's how Google will below, you know, besides being the top of the list, they're gonna put you at the top of their list in their AI answer, which is what a lot of people it's it's not that people are trying to use Google AI more than anything else, but like that's the first thing that pops up.

SPEAKER_03 52:17

Yep.

SPEAKER_00 52:18

So they open it and they click on it, and all that money that you're using on Google Ad Spend is, I mean, depending on how you're doing it, you might not be wasting it because it's just not getting used. Um, but if I think probably people in the last what I mean, it's I think it's been like a I don't know if it's been fully two years that Google really brought this in, but like I am sure people saw our your Google spending going way down, and it's because it it threw a wrench in things whenever they first brought that out.

SPEAKER_04 52:48

So that makes me think of two things. One, a lot of people have shifted, and is why this this is a thing, is so I'm still uh because I'm just looking for quick answers. Uh now if I want something a little bit deeper and it's something I want to think about, I will jump into Groc or or any, you know, Claude, um Chat GPT. But some people have replaced a simple Google search, which there's a there's a purpose for this, yeah. Yeah, it's and it's been a marketing purpose for a long, long time. Some people have replaced replaced that with just jumping into a chat GPT or something like that.

SPEAKER_03 53:20

Yes, they have to do that.

SPEAKER_04 53:20

That's why this is shifting the game. But something even more key as marketing as a whole, that that you were just explaining, is your marketer, and this has to do with analytics and just staying in the game has to understand where these different uh digital platforms, where they're uh how they're getting their data, yes, what are they valuing and unfortunately for those I'm not necessarily that deep into it, you are right? So for those that are deep into it, gosh, it's an everyday thing that you've got to see where uh Meta has changed, you know, what what what are they allowing, what are they not, what are they valuing, what you know, because it changes the impact and the uh efficiency of your marketing dollars. Yeah, absolutely. And if your marketer is not on top of that, or your firm or whomever you're using, you you're gonna be behind. You will absolutely be behind. Um, you've got to have someone that that is just on top of it, and it's almost a full-time job, literally just staying on top of changes that these different platforms that are very powerful, by the way, are are changing on a daily basis. Yeah, you've got to have and that's and that's where that's a huge part of marketing, and I call it like analytics, but it's not really analytics, it's just paying attention to the game. They're make they're doing releases weekly, you know, they're telling you things between all of them. So you've got to be doing that. If you're not, gosh, pay someone to do it.

SPEAKER_00 54:54

Yeah. Well, and they even Instagram just rolled out a new feature, which I haven't even messed with, but people might have started. If you went to your DMs and you're like, what are what is this cluster of pictures over in the bottom corner? It's a new feature. So yes, they're rolling them out all the time. See what keeps people on the app longer.

SPEAKER_03 55:11

Absolutely.

SPEAKER_00 55:12

Um, okay, so what is one? We're gonna wrap up with these um two quick questions. Um, what is one marketing myth that you wish would disappear?

SPEAKER_02 55:20

Oh gosh.

SPEAKER_04 55:23

Well, I I mean, I I think well, I was gonna bring back up the the cutting and marketing spend, and that's not really a myth, but that's just a you know reality. It's a it's a panic decision, is what it is. Yeah, um, marketing myth. Oh my gosh, you may stop me here.

SPEAKER_00 55:39

Or one thing that you think a lot of may I mean, even if it's just people buy into.

SPEAKER_04 55:43

We we've talked to several of uh spoken about several of them, you know, print. Let's talk about print. That's good. So we have a very large conglomerate of companies in this town that are doing hundreds of millions of direct mail pieces. Yeah, they're doing and and again, this depends on you know, your tactic mix depends on your product, your service, your brand, all those kind of things. Um, but there are some that you know, I mentioned groceries, they're not gonna go away from from the ad. Right, no, they're not. They're not um candidates, right? Political candidates. Yeah, you're gonna get a postcard.

SPEAKER_03 56:16

Yep.

SPEAKER_04 56:17

You forever. Yeah, right. That's not gonna stop. Um, I I think understanding that, like maybe that myth of of print going away is maybe partially debunked already by by people that are in the game. Um, but for the you know, for the uh play person or your average, let's call them civilian, right?

SPEAKER_03 56:37

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 56:37

Um it's like, oh, prints, print's going away. It we thought it was.

SPEAKER_00 56:42

I think it, I think it's gonna come back stronger.

SPEAKER_04 56:45

I think you you the numbers are showing. Yeah, the numbers are showing growth in that sector.

SPEAKER_00 56:49

So uh, and I don't know if that's really a myth, but no, but I think it's I think it's a good hot take, and I think that it's something to look at the horizon because people hot take. People literally have written it off. I mean, completely written it off. And also, um, if you've seen the post off, like what it costs to do mailers, like the direct if you've never looked at direct mails, mailers, you might investigate it because it's very affordable. Very affordable, and you get exactly to the people you want to get to.

SPEAKER_04 57:16

That's what's so you can target very well. Yes. Um, I think you know, uh your messaging has to be strong, obviously. Um, and then uh what was another very strong part on on the direct mail piece. But anyway, it it is it is a very reasonable from a cost standpoint. Um you oh, that's what I was gonna say. You do have to differentiate to some extent because think about yourself, right? You check the mail, you're pulling out, yep, boom, boom, boom, boom. What is gonna cause someone to either oh it sticks out, so I'm gonna grab it because that was I don't know if that's really as big anymore, but it's a different size or that messaging, some whatever is gonna differentiate you, you've got to have that because otherwise you've got like one and a half seconds and that thing's going in the tricks.

SPEAKER_00 58:01

Yeah. Well, and if you only if you just want to try it one time, just don't do it.

SPEAKER_03 58:04

Oh no.

SPEAKER_00 58:05

Just don't do it if you're only gonna do it once because it's got its consistency because someone, if they see it every month, every couple weeks, they're gonna be they're gonna start paying attention to it.

SPEAKER_04 58:14

It's like a it's like a millboard.

SPEAKER_00 58:16

Yeah, exactly. Exactly. And here's my hot take on that topic. Um, I think that B2C, so B2C businesses like local businesses that have a customer base, I think you need to just um I think you should start trying some snail mail to your loyal customers because I think you're gonna see people are gonna be like personal touch, people are all about personal touch. And again, it might be different for your business, but by and large, when people feel like something was personalized for them, that they feel like they're VIP, they feel like they're in a different caliber of customer, they're yours. They are your customer. Okay, last question. What is one thing you believe about marketing all these years in the industry, even more now than than ever? Like you firmly believe about marketing.

SPEAKER_04 59:02

It's human to human. And you you really nailed this home, but uh, I I think it may be the strongest part here is um the most successful marketers, in my opinion, are those that are able to look at themselves not with closed doors, but look at themselves as a as as the consumer. Who is your client? Who are you going after? Get in that mindset. Um, I've seen some really strong brands that are just really capitalizing on this because they're they're standing really firm on that strategy, but they know their customer. If you know your customer and know how they think, but kind of evolve that, if you know that, you've got to be in that mindset. Yes. Everything you do, let me just put it this way any message, any touch point at all needs to speak to them like you're speaking directly. Yeah, I'm speaking to you right now. Yeah, if it's not, you're not gonna be as efficient, you're not gonna be as effective, um and I you're you could lose your way.

SPEAKER_03 1:00:02

Yeah, right. Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 1:00:03

I I think that's probably the the the best thing is like human to human, what do I say to you? If if you know, again, you gotta think and you've got to put yourself in their head, what do they want, what do they need, um, not what you're telling them, but what would benefit them.

SPEAKER_03 1:00:17

Right.

SPEAKER_04 1:00:18

If you can be a beneficial resource, whatever it is, a product, a service, whatever, if you can benefit them and really you're trying to help them, it's hard to fail.

SPEAKER_00 1:00:29

Yeah, 100%.

SPEAKER_04 1:00:30

Not impossible, but it's hard to fail.

SPEAKER_00 1:00:32

We I could literally probably geek out on all of this stuff all day long, but I am gonna wrap this up because the sky's the limit on, I don't know, marketing is just fascinating to me, obviously. But um, for the people, if they want to connect with you online, where can if you want them to connect with you? Where do you want them? Where can they find you online?

SPEAKER_04 1:00:55

Oh gosh, a million different people.

SPEAKER_00 1:00:57

You're a little harder to find than you.

SPEAKER_04 1:00:58

Yeah, I'm trying to think. Uh uh if this is really sad, guys. I'm not I'm a behind-the-scenes guy, right?

SPEAKER_00 1:01:05

So a lot of knowledge, so obviously people might want to.

SPEAKER_04 1:01:08

I'm trying, I am honestly trying to think of what my Instagram like handle is.

SPEAKER_00 1:01:12

I don't I don't if you I'm sure if you stack search Rab Buchert, you could find him. Yeah, if you search Ashley Buchert, you could definitely find him. Yeah, that's a lot easier. That's his wife, and I'm sure you could find him that way too.

SPEAKER_04 1:01:25

Yeah, and then we have you know websites and stuff, but but uh yeah, it's I'm pretty sure it's BDB Hogs with a Z. Arkansas Raser Back to Skill Hogs. Yeah, uh yeah, it's pretty shameful that I didn't even know that. It's all right.

SPEAKER_00 1:01:38

It's all right. Well, that is it for this session of the back office strategy session. If this conversation gave you clarity, a new angle, or even just the reminder that you're not the only one figuring this out, then it did its job. Let's take what's useful, apply it, move on it, because no one has it fully figured out, but we are building anyway. And if you found this episode valuable, share it with another operator who's also building. You can always hang out with us in between sessions at Signify Marketing Social. I'm Delena Dillon, and we'll see you next time.