What 5 Years of Entrepreneurship Taught Me

This month marks 5 years of Signify Marketing. So for this special bonus episode of The Back Office, we’re flipping the script. Instead of asking the questions, Dalayna Dillon sits in the guest seat as Danette Dillon leads a conversation reflecting on the realities of building a business over the last five years — the wins, the pivots, the failures, the lessons, and the things entrepreneurship teaches you that no one can fully prepare you for.

This isn’t a polished “success story” conversation. It’s an honest look at what it actually takes to keep building.

Throughout the episode, Dalayna shares:
- What surprised her most about entrepreneurship
- The hard lessons that shaped Signify Marketing
- What didn’t work the way she expected
- How marketing has changed over the last five years
The emotional realities of leadership and business ownership

This conversation is reflective, strategic, and deeply honest — especially for business owners navigating uncertainty, pressure, and the constant process of learning while building. Because behind every business is a person trying to figure it out in real time.
No one has it fully figured out.
 But we’re building anyway.

Show Notes
Guest: Dalayna Dillon
Host: Danette Dillon
Business: Signify Marketing
Dalayna Dillon is the founder and creative director of Signify Marketing, a marketing and strategy company focused on helping businesses grow through intentional communication, branding, content strategy, and relationship-driven marketing.

Over the last five years, Signify has worked alongside businesses across multiple industries, helping organizations strengthen their visibility, messaging, marketing systems, and community impact.

In this special bonus episode celebrating Signify Marketing’s 5-year anniversary, Dalayna reflects on the realities of entrepreneurship, leadership, marketing, and the lessons learned through building a business over the last half decade.

In This Episode, We Discuss
• Why Dalayna started Signify Marketing
 • What entrepreneurship looked like in the early days
 • Expectations vs reality in business ownership
 • What surprised her most over the last 5 years
 • The principles that still matter regardless of changing tactics
 • Hard seasons, setbacks, and lessons learned
 • What didn’t work the way she expected
 • The most rewarding part of helping businesses grow
 • What the future of Signify Marketing looks like

About The Back Office

Hosted by Dalayna Dillon
Founder & Creative Director of Signify Marketing

The Back Office invites listeners into honest conversations about marketing, growth, leadership, and the real decisions shaping active businesses.

Facebook/Instagram: @signifymarketingsocial 

www.signifymarketing.social

Transcript

SPEAKER_02 0:06

Hello and welcome to a special episode of the back office. My name is Danette Dillon, and uh I'm here actually getting the opportunity to interview Delena Dillon, who obviously usually is doing the interviews for the back office, but today we're flipping the script. Very strange, very strange feeling. Yeah, we're flipping the script though. And uh rather than her asking the questions about growth and marketing and leadership and decisions that had to be made, they're getting asked of her. So um sit back, relax, and this is a special five-year anniversary. Five-year anniversary. This month marks five years that Signify Marketing has been in business. And uh, so this has felt like a special and pertinent way uh to celebrate that milestone marking. Delena, take us back. Tell us a little bit about the beginning of uh Signify Marketing. What was it like at the beginning, and why did you decide to start Signify?

SPEAKER_00 1:12

Oh goodness. Well, I will admit I'm one of those who never wanted to go out on my own. And the reason was not because I didn't think that I didn't believe in my skill, uh skill set or ability to figure it out. Um, because as is a highlight on the Back Office podcast, uh nobody starts when they have it figured out. Exactly. Because that's that's that's what keeps us from starting, is the idea that we have to have it all figured out before we launch. And nobody does that. First of all, the misconception is that that's how it is, nobody does that. Literally nobody does it. Everyone's figuring it out in every stage that they're in. So I I was doing marketing internally at a business, and I was, I mean, I still to this day, I look back on um some of those opportunities that I had there, and they're some of my favorite because I got to go through a lot of different stages with that business. Um, a new ownership handoff, like the company got purchased, and I was there before and thereafter, transitioning that over, um, rebranding, like not just a little rebranding, like not a refresh, a complete rebrand. That was a very uh, I mean, now that I've gone through it, I'm like, that was so much fun. Um, because you got to really um think everything through and be really intentional with the branding and the messaging.

SPEAKER_02 2:48

Exactly. So can we stop for that just a minute? So we on this rebrand, it wasn't so the business was already in place, yes, the business concept, yes, but the vision was changing completely.

SPEAKER_00 3:00

Yes, completely, yeah, different everything. Um, so that was a really fun project to work on, and then just being a part of that. So needless to say, the that all after all that happened, some pretty major shifts. I would say oh it felt even more major than the rebrand were happening. And things I just didn't feel in alignment with new leadership and no disrespect there, but it was kind of like uh I did I didn't know this new company because with new leadership comes new ideas and new vision, and it was it was another shift from what I had uh helped create. And um, so it just you know, I was I was kind of looking on the horizon for what was next. I didn't know what I was gonna do, but I knew um I knew something was gonna shift.

SPEAKER_02 3:58

Well, I think I think what I hear you saying now and not these words is that for your beginning and probably most business begin uh uh business owners' beginnings or entrepreneurs, maybe or perhaps the first step is self-actualization or self-realization of knowing who you are and knowing your values and knowing whether or not you align with what you were doing previously. And maybe does that do you feel like that gives you courage or maybe just uh determination to step out?

SPEAKER_00 4:32

Yeah, I think I think that it definitely was the sign that things were gonna change. Yeah. So that and then so in the midst of this happening, um, so we'll just say, okay, so this was January or it was the end of 2020 and stepping into the beginning of 2021.

SPEAKER_02 4:55

So there's lots of change business worldwide during that time period.

SPEAKER_00 4:58

Of course, of course.

SPEAKER_02 4:59

And then also just as a collective, the entire world was going through a lot emotionally.

SPEAKER_00 5:05

Yes.

SPEAKER_02 5:06

So it's almost like you literally were fed up.

SPEAKER_00 5:08

Yeah, yeah, yeah, a hundred percent. Um and you know, it's better to leave. I I really do think that when you're making a transition, it's better to leave before you burnt bridges and before you're burnt out. And so that's always good because you know, I was I felt burned by some of the things that were happening because whenever you've put so much heart, soul, creativity into something and someone is coming in and and rewriting the script, um, yeah, it feels personal, but which it's not, it's business um in that sense. But so January of 2021, um, I shared this on social media, but that was when I met Melissa Vandery, and um she is the owner of Salt Earth Massage and Dry Salt Therapy. And so she um I kind of got introduced to her. She started coming in, she saw what I was doing and building there at that business, and it complemented her business really well. And so she starts talking to me about like, hey, um, I would love for us to work together. I would love for you to, you know, help me. She didn't have she was brand new. She had just opened the November before, so two months before. And um, so she was needing to get her feet wet with marketing, what that would look like, you know. Again, a normal business owner trying to do everything, and she was trying to see how she could get some help marketing. And at that time, it's not like I had, okay, yes, let's have a discovery conversation, let's see what you need, let's talk about the I didn't have any of that. So, I mean, this was just kind of that nudge that, like, huh, maybe, maybe this is an area to explore. But even at that time, I did not want to go off on my own. And the reason is I did not want to promote promote myself. I think the hard thing about being in marketing is you want you get into it to market other people, but as a business owner, you have to market yourself and your business. And so that was the part that was, I was like, no, no, no, no, no, no. I do not want to go down that road. And so, um, again, I said this in a video that I recorded with Melissa a little bit of, I don't remember when, on social media recently. Um, and even at that time, the first couple of months where we started talking, we started actually working together. I drug Melissa and uh in the process, I got uh another couple of clients, drug them along through, and I joined up with a local production company who was doing social media, specifically social media marketing. That's really all they did was they were a production studio who also did um social media marketing. And so I tried to make that fit. I was like, this will be better because I don't feel I don't have to feel like I'm marketing myself, promoting myself. Here's someone else who already has um packages and concepts, and I can just kind of fit right in. I didn't have to develop any of it, I just could fit right in and go with it. And so I was like, okay, yes. So that's how I actually started doing all this. And so I worked with that company for a good um, I think probably five or so, no, not that many, but so basically from February, March, April, and then I kind of transitioned out in May. So really only three, four months. Um, and so because the the hard thing, you know, whenever you try to make something fit that doesn't fit, it's just not gonna work. So that comes back to identity a little bit. I yeah, I I it was not fitting. It was not fitting. The reasons, the problems that I had was first of all, this production company only offered social media marketing. So whenever I would start talking to talking to the owner and saying, you know, I really think that we should bring this piece in, and I really think that like, yeah, we can do social media.

SPEAKER_02 8:54

Is more than I mean, a lot of it is social media.

SPEAKER_00 8:57

It can be. I mean, yes, but not all of it. So I started trying to bring in all these other pieces, and I kind of got the no. I kind of got shut down on that because they're like, well, that's not really what we do. Because that's not their brand. Yeah, they knew who they were too. Yeah, exactly. And I and so I was kind of again in a spot where I was like, Well, I don't feel like I can best serve these other clients and businesses by not giving them more of what could really help promote and grow their business. So needless to say, on on, I mean, again, nobody ever loves to get left, but I think on good terms, I kind of transitioned out of that. And, you know, I I roped Melissa into going into that.

unknown 9:43

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 9:44

And also, there was another um client that I gained, yeah, gained, I pulled in to go through that route. And so they they both, you know, I told them like this is what the plan is, you can make your choice. I just I don't want to get in the mix because obviously, you know, that's a whole nother layer of like um what I did conflict of interest. Conflict of interest. There you go. So I just I just kind of left it at that. And um, Melissa, of course, she's like, Well, you brought me into this. There, that's the only reason why I was here. So, you know, I worked it all out with the other business owner and made that transition just with Melissa and then one other client um that came for me and it uh evolved it evolved into different working relationships. So, anyways, that's when in May we made that transition. And what's funny is all this time, and and this, I think this for those business owners who are like launching, but they're still working another quote unquote nine to five. You this is to let you be seen. Like I was still working at that original business this entire time.

SPEAKER_02 10:54

Right.

SPEAKER_00 10:54

My last day there was the very last day of May.

SPEAKER_02 10:57

So this is the business that you rebranded.

SPEAKER_00 11:00

Yeah, the original work, yeah, that I transitioned out of. And so I was still working there all the way up until the end of May, and um, you know, made that transition because again, I wanted to give them a month, I gave them a month's notice so that we could fully transition that.

SPEAKER_02 11:15

And you were in a leadership role too, so it's not like you, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 11:18

Right. So, anywho, there was a lot of moving pieces there. I mean, working that other full working the full-time job, but also trying to build this and develop this. That's Georgia. Sorry, she's gonna bark in the background, but um she uh that was just a lot, a lot of to develop this and build it while still doing your quote unquote nine to five. So if that's you, just know you're not alone. And here's another thing that I I know, listen, I I have soapboxes, I whatever. I jump on and off. Any given time, I can jump on a soapbox and get off a soapbox. So, with that being said, if you were in that place, do not act like you don't have a business. Do not act like, well, I I it's not my full-time thing. Who cares? That's still your business. Don't downplay it, do not downplay it because you're building while you're still doing what you gotta do. That's the hustle. Never downplay it. Right. Okay, so that's my soapbox. Okay, I'll jump off of that. But anywho, that's really what it looks like. Um, you know, it's it's not always this thing of get an idea, develop it, launch it, and win. It's not always like so.

SPEAKER_02 12:29

There's, you know, it's I do think that that's a kind of a cultural or a um generational thing, though, too. Like, especially as millennials, you're a younger millennial or on the edge. I'm on the old I'm on the older millennial edge, I suppose. Um, but I would say with Gen Z, especially, it's not that they are alphas even, it's not that they don't have great ideas. They do have great ideas, but it's not like um you can you you have to work. It it takes work to develop it. It takes work. I was actually watching TikTok, I think it was this morning, it may have been very late last night, not for sure which. And one of it was a actually a Jen uh Zier who said um something about she was developed, she was talking about seeing people who reached their uh career goals and she was talking about ambition in that. I couldn't tell you the creator's name, so I'm not gonna be in help with that. But she said ambition wasn't what marked people being successful because a lot of people have ambition, but it was the ability to work that's right on their ambition with ambition.

SPEAKER_00 13:38

Yeah, work with ambition, yeah, because it definitely does not come. You can have the dream and it's not gonna happen until you work the dream.

SPEAKER_02 13:49

You gotta put the work the dream, work the dream. So, in with that in mind, work the dream. What has surprised you over the last five years? Surprised me.

SPEAKER_00 13:59

Oh, goodness. Well, I mean, I feel like there's a lot that has surprised me in different contexts. Um so I sometimes it surprised well I think okay, there like there's surprises in different areas. So I think it surprised me how as far as locally, how small once you get out there and start like, you know, meeting other business owners, but it it how small really the business community is. Um, but it's not small numerically, but it, you know, people people know people and it it travels. And so that's you know, I I I was involved pretty heavily in networking, especially right at the beginning. And yeah, it it made it, it was a good kind of small, like, oh, okay, you know, if I don't know someone, I know someone who knows someone type of thing. So um, but I did feel like in those sort of contexts, so networking, like I mean, there's a lot of networking opportunities out there. I did mostly in-person networking. Um, but it was surprising because especially for my industry, it was like the photographers, uh, marketing, content people, production people, they kind of like found each other because we kind of don't fit into every situ every context in every situation. Um, because to be honest with you, in a lot of networking situations, most people just want to quote unquote pick our brains instead of actually pay for the service. Well, not just pay for the service, but actually like do what you do at a networking thing, get to know people so that you can refer them and you can refer people to them. And yeah, you can call upon them if you need something. But yeah, it was more picking of brains. And so I saw that a lot of times that could extend a lot of my time. And uh, and there is something to be said when you're first starting out of, you know, letting people know because people don't know what you do. Oh, like literally I'm gonna pitch. Yeah. Oh my word, yeah. I would go into those type of situations, and I could say I did marketing or social media marketing, and people literally glazed over. They're like, what does that mean? What does that look like? So um, yeah, so that was surprising. Um, one thing that has surprised me, I will say, specific to my what I do, because I'm not the only one doing this, you know, um, is the number of people who bring in. Um, usually, I'll be honest, a lot of times businesses bring in a social media person that really that's all they're gonna do. They're not gonna bring in other marketing.

SPEAKER_02 16:41

And they probably pay them per the hour.

SPEAKER_00 16:43

Sometimes, yeah, but I'm saying more of like a contract type person, like what I would do. Um, they come bring them in, pay them, you know, a nice little monthly whatever retainer, and they have no contract. They have no list of deliverables. That doesn't happen some of the times, it actually happens a lot. Yeah, like and people have really bad experiences with people, especially in social media marketing, because they they hire someone, they have sign no contract, they do trends, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 17:16

And trends are not where the business is at.

SPEAKER_00 17:19

So they'll hire them in, they will not sign a contract, and they will not get a list of deliverables. So whenever you they like they don't even know what they're doing. I I've talked to business owners who are like, Yeah, I I hire these people, but like I don't really know what I'm getting. I was like, Well, well, what's your contract say? And they're like, We don't have a contract. I'm like, yeah, whoa, or a job description.

SPEAKER_02 17:41

That's what it doesn't matter what your business it is astounding how many people do not have job descriptions. It's true. Like, how can you not know? That way you can, it's like a merit, a merit a matrix of what you can deliver upon for both the worker and the employer.

SPEAKER_00 17:56

Absolutely, yeah. So that has that has been super surprising to me. And it also tells me why, um again, mo mainly in the social media marketing, why it kind of gets a bad rap. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 18:09

So uh what do you think has been the most difficult part of the last five years? Difficult. Um what or what is what has been the hardest moment?

SPEAKER_00 18:22

Um, I think the hardest moment like okay, while I just said that that whole situation about um having a contract and to protect the business owner. Right. That contract also protects me. Yes. If the business owner abides by it. And so I think probably the hardest moment for me in the last five years was probably I think I think it was like the second year in, is I did have a business owner. Um I so I I this particular business, I wasn't just working with one business, they owned multiple businesses, and so I actually did marketing for three of their businesses. Right. Um, and there's more to that that I don't want to share just because, you know, I'm it's not about dishonoring anybody, but it was really tough because, you know, to me, I'm like, well, you know, I do everything I can to protect the business owner. They know what they're they know what to expect from me, I know what to expect from them. We have it all outlined in a contract. But when a business owner decides they're not going to abide by that contract, what are you gonna do?

SPEAKER_02 19:35

Yeah, sever the relationship. Yeah, so this is this is really interesting. Sorry to to cut in here. I was thinking um recently about Brene Brown's saying where she says, clear is kind. Yes, it is. And the kindest thing that you can do for yourself, do for your employees, do for your employers, is to be clear and to and this is another thing that I think people forget. Conflict is not a while it is conflict, while it is uncomfortable, conflict is something to grow through. It does not have to be a severed relationship, right? We can learn to grow through conflict, and actually that's the more healthy approach is to learn that your gifts and my gifts are not the same. Your weaknesses and my weaknesses are not the same. Your strengths should uh cover my weakness, and vice versa, that will produce conflict. Yeah, but ultimately we are stronger and better together. Yeah, I think that so can be so easily applied to both the employer and the employee. Yeah, and I think that actually goes with what you're saying here. Yeah, like in some ways, you are your company, Signify Marketing, was employed by these people, but or this other business or businesses, franchise, no, it wouldn't be franchise, but what would you call that? Enterprise. You you were employed or Signify was employed with them, but the the clarity needed then begin to counteract your values, yeah. And so if those uh things had been talked through, then we would wouldn't have to go back to the beginning here, which was the whole reason for leaving the corporate world, if you will, uh anyway.

SPEAKER_00 21:24

Yeah. Well, let me tell you the stories because of some other things that I was working on with them, because they had you know, they I was helping them it with one of their businesses more than the other two. And so random day, I can't even remember what day of the week it was, but I got a phone call. It was, I'm not exaggerating, a 30 second phone call. No exaggeration in that 30 second phone call, and it was just simply to the point, no room for conversation, just this is what's happening. You know, we are we're not moving forward, you know, we're cutting off services. Now for across the board. And this happened to be because part of what I was doing with them was a um was a percentage. What do you say? A percentage of their sales. And it just so happened to be the actual highest grossing month of the year for one of their businesses that I was getting a percentage of.

SPEAKER_02 22:19

Commission.

SPEAKER_00 22:19

A commission from, sorry, that's right. Um, and I I don't think that was a coincidence that it was the month that I was gonna be getting the largest commission. And that was it. 30 seconds. Um, we're not continuing this.

SPEAKER_02 22:37

You know, I wasn't going to fight, I wasn't going to so clearly you were doing your job, and I just well if you were if the cells were lining up there.

SPEAKER_00 22:45

Well, and I reached out and I said, you know, just to remind you, this is what our contract outlines. Here's I, you know, send them the contract. This is what the contract outlines. I just, you know, these are this is how much notice that we both agreed to. And the reply was that's not going to hold up in court. I was like, Well, I wasn't planning to go to court. I just thought, you know, good people are good people. Um, so needless to say, everyone gets burned in business, everyone has things like that. But I think it always goes in your favor to still be a good person who does good to others.

SPEAKER_02 23:20

Act with integrity regardless of what I think that is a hard lesson to learn.

SPEAKER_00 23:24

But I learned it a year in. So there you go. That's early. I learned it early.

SPEAKER_02 23:29

Learned the lesson once, but you have to live it every time. Oh man, that'll preach. You learn the lesson once, but you have to live it every single time. You can't just live it once.

SPEAKER_00 23:39

Yeah, but that was hard. That was hard just because I was kind of dumbfounded. Um, I think I was it was kind of like a night a naive moment where I just thought that if someone told me and signed their name to something, they were gonna follow through with that. And it's just not true. And anyone in business knows that that's the case. And now you do. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 23:57

Now I take it seriously. But also I think it makes I I I mean, I don't know whenever you've been burned that way. I do think it makes your determination to uh uphold your end of those contracts even more because you I never would want to you know what it feels like to be left high and dry like that. Right. Yeah. Well, what are some things that you tried and didn't work? We've all tried things and that did not work, unfortunately.

SPEAKER_00 24:25

I think the biggest one that I actually thought was gonna be really helpful um that just never did work well was um social media coaching. I thought that was gonna do really well because here's what I was thinking is like, you know, there are business owners who like they they just it's not in their operating expenses to be able to bring someone on to handle their social media marketing. So here's what I can do: I can work with you, you know, on a weekly basis, monthly basis, and give you the tools, guide you, even give you like exactly what to post, when to, you know, all of these things. And then all they have to do is plug and play. And so to me, I thought that was gonna go really well. I did have a handful of people choose to try that out, but what I noticed was um the success was a hundred percent dependent on them. Like I could show up, I could give them monthly calendar after monthly content calendar, but if they don't post the content, it does nothing. Yeah, and um, so there's some that you know did better than others, but I mean there were some people that literally for several months when we'd get back on our next marketing call, they hadn't done anything we talked about. Yeah, and so then I kind of am in a spot where I'm like, I don't want you to, I I don't feel like I can help you because you're not following your end of the deal.

SPEAKER_02 25:51

And I'm this is totally my personality and I know it. But if somebody's not following their end of the deal and I'm doing work, I don't care if they're paying me for it, it annoys me.

SPEAKER_00 26:00

Well, it doesn't, I don't think it's so much annoying me. It's just I felt I just was disappointed in the sense of I wanted them to see the impact of just being consistent, right? Of just, you know, doing it and not because so many, so many business owners, when it comes to social media marketing, most of the issue is they are overthinking it.

SPEAKER_01 26:18

True.

SPEAKER_00 26:18

So they're like, Well, I have to get the perfect post and the perfect video or the perfect picture, and then I'll post it. And it's like, no, you gotta be showing up. So, you know, get your ideas all out. We worked on that good strategy in in all of that, and then just post it. People care, you know. So, anyways, that was one thing that I I thought would be super helpful, and um, yeah, I just I think some people like I said, it didn't have a great response, but also um a lot of people didn't follow through on their end of the coaching.

SPEAKER_02 26:50

So, with that in mind, you're calling that a failure. How and maybe it wasn't just that, you know, uh we we don't want to call it failure.

SPEAKER_00 27:01

We'll I think people just had their I think they had the wrong expectation. They thought um if someone was telling them what to do that they would actually do it and they realized that that wasn't their real issue with why they weren't. It was probably they didn't have time to do the marketing, yeah, to do the social or delegating it or whatever it may have been.

SPEAKER_02 27:19

Yeah. How has failure changed your decision making process?

SPEAKER_00 27:25

Well, I don't do it again.

SPEAKER_02 27:26

That's good.

SPEAKER_00 27:27

I do not do the same thing again. Yes. Um, yeah, I think that you just get smarter. I mean, that's the deal, is you just get smarter with experience, really.

SPEAKER_01 27:38

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 27:38

And um also as a business owner, I I think of it from a business owner, like different I work with business owners. So as a business owner, I try to use that perspective of um of that. And I do feel like I with what I do, I get a good inside look at what business owners are struggling with, their uh difficulties, their pain points. And so yeah, thinking about it from that perspective helps. Um, I think that helps too.

SPEAKER_02 28:08

True. I agree with that. So, what do you believe about marketing now that you didn't believe five years ago? I mean, if we're gonna just if we take the social media marketing, maybe we should take that out of it. Um, you know, I actually this question is really pertinent because if you consider I've been thinking about, I've personally been thinking about this a lot with um the needs during COVID, the needs immediately after COVID, and now the media now the needs um post-COVID, I would say. You know, we're still in in some ways you're never gonna be unaffected. This generation will never be unaffected by those memories or the trauma. But how uh, and so maybe we should just remove social media from it because the algorithm changes every month, all those annoying things. But marketing in general, how do you think it is different now that you didn't believe? How do I get believed differently about it now that I did it?

SPEAKER_00 29:08

Well, I think first of all, don't get too comfortable in in in is in the sense of it is evolving with culture evolving, with um technologies and advan advancing, don't get too comfortable in the sense that I talk to people who what they what they have been doing for the last five years is they're tried and true, and they're like, Well, this is what I always do, and it always works. Well, but for like um, I'll just use this example. This is not targeting anyone, this is just a off the top of my head example, you know, Google reviews. That is the tried and true. That's what I do. If I increase my Google reviews, it's always gonna make an impact. Okay, but you're not seeing um, you're not you're not seeing other growth that can happen if you tied in another marketing tactic um besides just Google reviews.

SPEAKER_02 30:03

And also, I do wonder how the Google AI affects.

SPEAKER_00 30:06

Well, that's what I'm saying too. Like Google reviews, not that they're not, you know, they're important because you could another thing about Google reviews, this is just a like a little free piece of advice. That's not just a one win. That's not just one win, that's multiple wins because you can feature it on your website, you can incorporate it into your social media posting. You, you know, but it's got layers, yeah, yeah, yeah. But it's got layers to the benefit of it. It's got layers to the benefit of it. Um, but I think that you, yes, you can have some tried and true marketing pieces that work for your business, but don't think that that's the end all because um though even those things will change and how people interact with them will change. Um, I think that the one thing that I I I you know, you know it in the back of your mind, but it's even more true to me today than it was five years ago, is just the piece of marketing that is a hundred percent um knowing the psychology of your customer. Right. Knowing what speaks to them, what relates to them, and that changes, yeah, because just as you are changing, they are changing also.

SPEAKER_02 31:25

Right. It's the story. I mean, I'm big one of my main things I feel like has always been about the story, the narrative that our life writes and that our brand rights, that our business rights. It's massively important, and then that story changes because we are changing people, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 31:42

Yeah, so I think that that is a piece that again in the back of my mind I knew like getting into your customer's brain mattered, but like now it's amplified. I'm like, you've gotta, you know, speak to them, hit them between the eyes with your messaging and with your content and with everything. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 32:01

Uh what matters more than people realize?

SPEAKER_00 32:04

Hmm. What matters more than people realize? This is gonna sound like a just like a repeat, repeat, repeat, because I say it all of the time. Consistency! Consistency. Oh man. I I there's things is like uh, you know, people show up better in bet when they're doing better or whenever they have more capacity to focus on marketing, and then you might see it die out. No, just show up consistently. Yeah, just show up, even if it means you go slower so that you can be consistent. That's it.

SPEAKER_02 32:39

Oh, you know what I was thinking about actually as you were saying that, and I've thought about it a lot recently. Uh an object in motion, it's John, it's the Newton law. An object in motion tends to stay in motion. Yeah. If you can get motion, you can build momentum. But if you're just sitting still, you're not gonna get it.

SPEAKER_00 32:58

Listen, momentum is something that's sometimes hard to grasp and figure out how to get, but once you get it, yeah, woo, you've got to run with it because it won't last for forever.

SPEAKER_02 33:09

What in the what in the past five years has been the most rewarding part of building this business, of building signified marketing?

SPEAKER_00 33:19

Um the most rewarding part, I think honestly, I get fired up when I get to do something that I creatively enjoy. But um, whenever it I like it when business owners allow me to be creative.

unknown 33:37

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 33:38

Um, whether that be with a campaign, with a video idea. Um, so those are things that get me fired up is whenever I'm really allowed to just be the creative director for something because you know, a lot of times you're fitting within guidelines of a brand or something like that. But whenever it works and you are allowed to really kind of press the limits with that and be creative, but also I don't like being creative when it doesn't have a purpose, like creativity with a stupid video. I'm sorry, nobody needs more goofy videos, but like creativity that pushes the limits that means something. I enjoy that.

SPEAKER_02 34:16

One of the most fun videos that you have done was for a business, it was a health and wellness business, but it was for Christmas and Santa Claus came to visit. So that was just yeah, that was fun.

SPEAKER_00 34:30

That was fun. Listen, that was you know, sometimes you think of that. That was it, that was that video shoot was a little complicated, but it was good. I loved the final product. That was good.

SPEAKER_02 34:40

I loved that quality product, too. What moments make the hard part of this business worth it?

SPEAKER_00 34:49

I think just went just being successful. Like having and success for me, a lot of times it's like success for that business.

SPEAKER_02 34:56

So when the business success is successful, yeah, yeah, yeah. What are you most proud of?

SPEAKER_00 35:00

Most proud oh goodness.

SPEAKER_02 35:06

While I'm not you and I'm not a business owner, I'm not the business owner. Um I think one of the things that I'm most proud of I might cry thinking about this. Sorry. Um I get emotional very easily. Uh but you were doing some um pro bono work for uh for the downtown river district of Bixby, which you do, but people don't probably don't know that. They don't need to know that, but here I am saying it. And I remember um there was it was I can't remember if it was last year. I think no, it wasn't last year. I I think it was the year before, but it was the downtown river district is the hallow theme party, and you were talking about using your creativity. Uh-huh. But this but the the Hallow theme party, the whole thing, it's a it's a community event. Um lots of different people are involved, but one of the things that happens every time or has happened previously every time is that there's a story, so the theme. And and in the past you've done Star Wars, you've done Minions, Zootopia, but this particular one was Peter Pan. And the story you wrote was about um there that there are no lost boys, that everyone was. We were doing initiative with the local adoption agency.

SPEAKER_00 36:32

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 36:32

And uh so that was like the what was benefiting from Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 36:37

They got up and shared about how you can um, you know, be there and support foster families and the community and all that all the difficulties that they face.

SPEAKER_02 36:47

Yeah. But um anyway, I you know, I think it was raining that year. It was raining, it was drizzly. It what the attendance was lousy the year previous, I think Signify or what's not just signify, but that event had over 10,000 people. But this year it was probably closer to 2,000. So it was a little bit discouraging, but the weather was horrible. It was raining. I remember leaving that night drenched, but also remember leaving just so absolutely moved by that the story, the retelling using Peter Pan and um and the lost boys to get the message out of supporting foster care, supporting adoption. It was beautiful. And so while while the success wasn't necessarily measured in the numbers of 10,000 people, or I think we had 12, 13,000 this past year, whatever it was, it was uh measured in impact.

SPEAKER_00 37:49

Yeah, impact looks different in the world.

SPEAKER_02 37:51

It looks different for different contexts, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 37:53

It's hard for me to pinpoint something that I'm most proud of just because I'm the type of person is once something's done, I'm on to the next thing and I don't really process through it. And pretty much I don't put something out there if I'm not proud of it. So I just uh yeah, it's hard for me to pinpoint something I'm most proud of.

SPEAKER_02 38:10

Um well maybe that maybe that personality then or maybe that attribute of you don't put something out there if you're not proud of it. That's true. That's true. So we have five years behind us. Yep. We don't know how many years we have ahead of us, but we know that we have this mode initiative. We have this year. We have right now. We have right now. What excites you about the future?

SPEAKER_00 38:32

Um excites me about the future. Uh I think continuing to write, create compelling stories, messaging, I think having uh greater impact through just uh helping people um win. I like helping people win and succeed. Uh and it looks different for different people, but yeah, that's what I I love to do.

SPEAKER_02 38:59

How I mean, you know, but you are a visionary person, but I I mean I can attest to that. I am around you literally every day, even days that you don't want me around you, and vice versa. And vice versa. You're a visionary person. So what is your vision? Or do you have a vision for the future of Signify Marketing?

SPEAKER_00 39:21

Yeah. Um, you know, I'm always pretty open-minded, open-handed with everything because what I have learned of anything is that uh things can change, things can shift. You never know what opportunities are gonna come. You never know. Yeah, you know?

SPEAKER_02 39:37

Um one day, I mean literally one day can change everything.

SPEAKER_00 39:40

Yeah, yeah. I mean, different opportunities to come. But I think I think that I really as far as the horizon, I would love to have a team. I would love to step into more, and I even now, like kind of in my quote unquote title, which you know, it's just something you gotta have. It doesn't really matter. You do you do everything when you are the business owner? That's true. You do everything, but you gotta have a title. But um, I I kind of have coined it as owner and creative director because I I really that's the piece um that I I'm I feel like I'm skilled in a lot of areas, but I really love the creative director um hat being able to really cast the vision, like you said, and um because sometimes I just like to, you know, be that uh ideals person. Um, and then you have to some it's it's it takes a lot of time to bring those ideas to reality. So I would love to, um, again, in an open-handed way, if it doesn't happen this way, whatever. But I would love to have uh more of a team situation where I'm able to step more into the creative director role and have other skilled people be able to deliver on that direction and deliver on that creativity. Um, I I would love to do that if that happened. And that's what we're building towards now. Yeah. And I think also stepping into more of the producing type of side, I'm a big experienced person. Even like events that I produce, I want them to create an experience. I'm huge on that. Um, and so I think being able to do even more of that, I love doing that. It uh, you know, it it re-energizes me to be able to create experiences and be mindful of like the whole thing, like on an event. What is the client or customer or person, attenders experience throughout this whole thing? And like just yeah, I love all of that.

SPEAKER_02 41:37

And and just just with where we are with technology, yeah, I think with the advancement of AI, that's even gonna become, I mean, from the studies, yeah. That's it gonna become even more, even bigger because like I look, I'm pretty fairly involved in the theater world, whether it's Broadway or opera or whatever, I'm pretty involved in it. And what we are seeing as a whole is um people are largely uh going to live performances more. A live performance cannot be manufactured. That's right. And you know, with that brings challenges. Yeah, because whenever you're doing anything live, there's always more chance for something to go wrong. The electricity could go out, the camera could go off, the microphones could go out. Granted, yes, yes, there's just no, there's just no way of knowing. Live experiences are where it is at. And we even see this, we even see Disney and Netflix just some of the things. They're already they're already going more into this. Even in Branson, Oklahoma. Wait, what Branson, Missouri, even in Branson, Missouri, we if y'all don't know, uh Signify Marketing's based in Tulsa, Oklahoma, which is just about three hours from Branson, Missouri. And a lot of people don't realize that Branson, Missouri, if this if this podcast makes it all the way to the east to the west coast, Branson, Missouri is kind of like the Gatlin Berg of this area, or you know, something like that. There's lots of different shows that happen and shopping and experiences. Disney actually has opened an interactive virtual um 3D 3D experience in Branson, Missouri. So that's how big this is coming. Netflix, we know that they are bringing one to Dallas, and I think somewhere in Philadelphia and a few other places, they're bringing interactive experiences. Yeah. And um, yeah, there's a lot to be said for that. Super cool, super cool. I think it's cool. Well, Delena, that pretty much wraps up this wraps up this special bonus anniversary. Oh my goodness, this dog, she's like a humanoid child. Anyway, into the back office, and over the last five years, one thing has become clear no one, truly, truly, no one has. It figured out nobody. Um, and we're all working for that. There's not a business you admire, there's not a leader that you respect, there's not people that that look confident online that have figured out. None of us do. That's right. But the ones that are showing up with consistency, consistently, yes, keep learning and keep building intentionally, those are the ones who are growing. That's right. And um can't keep us down. And this, and if this is a congregate conversation that resonates with you, um share it with another business owner and uh so that we can all build together. Yes, there is room at the table for every single person. We are not in competitive, we are not in competition with each other, we are in competition with ourselves. So thank you for being a part of the last five years of Signify Marketing. And guess what? We're just getting started. So now we maybe you know, maybe you don't. Um, Delena is an avid fan of the Real Housewives of Salt Lake City and of uh Beverly Hills. Yeah. And this started because she is a podcast, uh a true crime podcast queen. It started through uh listening to the podcast Queen of the Con. And then she's comes in and says, Danette, we're gonna start watching the Real Housewives of Salt Lake City. And at every reunion, after they've, you know, been at each other's throats for three or four episodes, um, Andy always has a toast. Now we don't drink, so we're gonna participate by celebrating, not with not with drink, but with sugar. And so Delena's favorite dessert is actually anything lemon. And so I stopped by a small business here in our t in this town where we are today and picked her up a lemon pavlova. I think that's how you say it.

SPEAKER_00 45:50

Well, where'd you get this from?

SPEAKER_02 45:51

Um, the pastistery.

SPEAKER_00 45:56

We can't even shout them out because you can't pronounce the name.

SPEAKER_02 45:59

It's French anyway. Um, and so spoon or fork. And then I I got a piece of cake. Smelly. So it's it's lemon something or another, and there's a kiwi on it.

SPEAKER_00 46:10

But anyway, so I feel like you need the fork and I need the spoon.

SPEAKER_02 46:13

Okay. So we took what what Andy always uh they always do is they always toast for the lessons that we will tag the small business that or the local businesses. So they toast the past and the lessons they learn, and then they celebrate the lessons still to be learned. So here we go. We're toasting the past, the lessons we've learned over the last five years. Yeah, I think it's it's moraine, I think, with women. I don't know. Um, if you don't like it, there's a lemon bar, but I'll just do it.

SPEAKER_01 46:46

No, it'll be great because it's it's I thought this was prettier.

SPEAKER_02 46:49

Yeah. Um, we're toasting the past and celebrating the future. Okay. Not celebrating. It smells good. Well, that's it. Thank you for joining us. We appreciate you, and we will see you next time on the back office.