Why Businesses Struggle to Attract and Keep Great People

Why does hiring feel harder than it’s ever been?

In this episode of The Back Office, Dalayna Dillon sits down with Carrie Corcoran, founder of Unbreakable Light and a leading voice in employer branding and talent strategy, to unpack one of the most pressing challenges facing businesses today — attracting and retaining the right people.

Carrie brings a powerful perspective to the conversation, combining her experience as a keynote speaker, consultant, and communicator with her deep understanding of leadership and organizational culture. Together, they explore why traditional approaches to hiring are no longer working, and what businesses must do differently to build teams that last.

This conversation goes beyond job descriptions and compensation. It challenges the way businesses think about leadership, communication, and the experience they create for employees — both inside and outside the organization.

From the role of employer branding to the expectations of today’s workforce, this episode offers a clear look at what it actually takes to build a team that is aligned, engaged, and committed.

If you’re a business owner, leader, or operator navigating growth, this conversation will reshape the way you think about hiring and retention.

No one has it fully figured out.
 But we’re building anyway.

Show Notes

Guest: Carrie Corcoran
Business: Unbreakable Light
Focus: Employer Branding, Leadership, Talent Strategy

Carrie Corcoran is a keynote speaker, consultant, and founder of Unbreakable Light, where she works with businesses to strengthen their internal culture and improve their ability to attract and retain high-quality talent.

Through her work, Carrie helps organizations understand how their brand, leadership, and communication directly impact their ability to build strong teams. She is known for her ability to challenge assumptions, inspire change, and bring clarity to complex organizational challenges.

Her approach emphasizes the importance of authenticity, alignment, and intentional leadership in creating workplaces where people want to stay and grow.

Find her online: 

Linked In: https://www.linkedin.com/in/globalkeynotespeaker/?skipRedirect=true

Youtube: https://www.youtube.com/@carriecaresunbreakablelight 

Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/CarrieTulsaTime 

About The Back Office

Hosted by Dalayna Dillon
Founder & Creative Director of Signify Marketing

The Back Office invites listeners into honest conversations about marketing, growth, leadership, and the real decisions shaping active businesses.

Facebook/Instagram: @signifymarketingsocial 

www.signifymarketing.social

Transcript

SPEAKER_00 0:06

Welcome to the back office. I'm Delena Dillon, the founder and creative director of Signify Marketing, and this is where you sit in on real strategy. This month, though, is a special month for us at Signify because we're celebrating five years in business, and I am excited to bring your comp these conversations with business owners who are building, learning, and figuring it out, just like we have been the past five years. Today I'm sitting down with Carrie Corcoran, keynote speaker, branding expert, and founder of Unbreakable Light. Carrie works with businesses to solve one of the biggest challenges they face attracting and retaining quality talent. Today we're talking about what's really going on behind the hiring struggles so many businesses are experiencing, and a lot of businesses are experiencing them. So, Carrie, thank you so much for coming on and talking to us because this is a problem so many businesses are facing, have faced. Um I think it's probably amplified. Have you seen that it's amplified in the post-COVID?

SPEAKER_02 1:12

Oh my gosh, so much so. But first of all of all, um Delena, thank you so much for having me on your podcast. It's a pleasure to be here and congratulations on five years.

SPEAKER_00 1:23

Thank you, thank you.

SPEAKER_02 1:24

That is amazing. Thank you. Yes. So, yes, um, huge challenge. And um, so one of the things that so unbreakable light for me is I take a flashlight and I shine that on a business's recruiting operations, and I help them unearth the pain that they're experiencing, and then I help them I build strategies to help them turn that pain into gold.

SPEAKER_00 1:52

And strategies are something that we all need. But tell us a little bit more about you and about unbreakable, like kind of where how how you got here to become the expert that you are in this area, but also in other areas as well.

SPEAKER_02 2:04

Absolutely. So I um got my start um on this side of the house with employer branding and recruitment marketing back in 2013. I worked for a contact center solutions company, a very small company, and I was tasked with both marketing and recruitment marketing. And we didn't call it employer branding back then. We didn't know what that terminology was. I like that term though. Yeah, I do. And so I realized through building strategies at that company for attracting talent that I loved the human side of marketing more so than the functional side of marketing. So business-to-business marketing wasn't my jam, and I was just so led more towards the human aspects of it. So I worked for that company, and then I worked for Hilton Global, and I was in their digital HR department, and I was the first employee hired under that umbrella, and they didn't call it employer branding either, it was digital HR, okay, which was fascinating to me because no one calls it that. Right, right. And then after Hilton, I worked for um BOK Financial here in Tulsa and was their VP of talent attraction here. I worked for Heartland out of Oklahoma City, and I was their senior manager of employer branding. In between that, during COVID, because I lost my job after COVID, I did a lot of consulting and um partnered with a good friend of mine who has TalentNet Media run out of Dallas, Craig Fisher, and did a lot of projects for his clients and more behind the scenes on employer branding and recruitment strategy. And let's see, uh BECU, which is a major um Boeing employees credit union, work there, and I've been an employment and job coach too. I've had like 10 different layoffs in my career, so I've seen all sides of it. Yeah. And um, so it's a little bit more.

SPEAKER_00 4:14

I've seen every side of it, the good, the bad, and the ugly.

SPEAKER_02 4:16

Oh my gosh. So much good, so much bad, so much ugly.

SPEAKER_00 4:21

Yes, yes. So, what led you to focus in on this problem? Because obviously, you I I think it's interesting, like the the way that you said Hilton, they called it digital recruitment. Is that what no HR. Digital HR, because the whole point that you said you really loved was the human aspect. And I feel like that completely removed the feeling of the human aspect. But when it gets down to it, bringing that human aspect back into it, I think is probably what makes this like that's a superpower for you in this area.

SPEAKER_02 4:50

Absolutely. And that's what Hilton did well, because even though it was called digital HR, we focused on internal employees as well and engaging them. So it was all the different digital aspects of how to engage talent internally and also externally.

SPEAKER_00 5:05

So, why do you feel like this is such a huge problem that businesses are facing, which I know is a layered question, but just from your perspective, what are some of the reasons that so many businesses struggle?

SPEAKER_02 5:17

Well, I would say if you're a smaller business, a lot of smaller businesses they may not have the funds to hire a consultant to come in and to help them figure out what those strategies are and help them attract talent. Although I I disagree with that.

SPEAKER_00 6:05

Yes, yeah. So do you feel like so many business owners, especially small business owners, because like you said, they might be the ones most of all who aren't doing this work, the strategy. Um, it's more than just saying, Oh, I need someone to fill lead cashier and finding someone to do that. So, what are what is the strategy that people should be thinking through to be able to say, hey, here's our plan. What does that strategy even begin to look like?

SPEAKER_02 6:34

So I think it's identifying those critical pain points. So if they're having a problem attracting candidates, talk to those candidates and say, hey, I know you applied with us and we offered you the job, why didn't you take it? It's something as simple as that that could be done.

SPEAKER_01 6:52

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 6:52

Um being on the right platforms to reach them for social media. Um, so if it's an hourly employee, that is probably TikTok, it's probably Facebook, it might be Instagram. Hourly is not necessarily gonna be on LinkedIn. Right. And it's talking about a day in the life, like what does that look like for an employee and just sharing those stories? Yeah. People want to hear from people who are who they're gonna be working for and working with, and to see what that's that's like. And it's it's not expensive to do that, even if you are a small business. I mean, grab your cell phone and shoot a video.

SPEAKER_00 7:31

That is such an interesting thing because that's something, especially since I do a lot with social media marketing, you might not realize the benefit of showing some of those behind the scenes because it might be attracting your future superstar employee. Exactly. That is so interesting. So, even with that, there's a strategy behind posting those, what some might feel like is like a fun moment or a team, like your work team and moment. There's actually a bigger reason why that's important.

SPEAKER_02 8:01

Absolutely.

SPEAKER_00 8:02

So, if someone was doing that, how often do you feel like they should be kind of showcasing that on the social media side of it? Because obviously, if you do it every day, then it just becomes like, oh, these people don't take anything seriously. Right. They're just having too much fun.

SPEAKER_02 8:16

I mean I would say it really depends on their hiring need. If there's a critical hiring need and they need to hire, say, 10 or 12 people at one time, then having the owner of the company shoot a video and then having an employee shoot a video and talk about what their day in the life looks like. I would say minimum once a week, you probably could get away with two times a week, maybe even three. Yeah. As you're building that strategy.

SPEAKER_00 8:47

That is such a good idea. I I mean, I hadn't even thought about 100% thought in that realm of this is the strategy. What are your thoughts on? I've seen some people ask their employees to do this. What are your thoughts on having employees do Google reviews or LinkedIn reviews, but more from the perspective of what it's like to work there versus their product or service or whatever?

SPEAKER_02 9:11

Uh so when I was at Hilton, I ran their Global Glassdoor program. And so there are there's Glassdoor where employees can review companies. There's also Indeed where M employees can review companies. And sure, Google as well. I think with reviews as a candidate from that perspective, always take those with a grain of salt. Right. And if you see a common theme within of dissatisfaction, then okay, that might be a red flag, a little bit of something to look out for if you do consider uh interviewing for that company, just to have a heads up on that. Um and so I've built strategies for companies so that their employees, so that they have their employees go out and uh do those reviews, and that increases their their um rank when the uh candidates are searching, yeah, as well as their attraction to a candidate.

SPEAKER_00 10:15

Now I've heard these stats from different businesses of saying they were rated the nation's number, whatever place to work. Where is that, where's that number coming from? Where do people come up with, oh, this is the top 10 place to work in the US?

SPEAKER_02 10:31

Uh for Glassdoor, they have a contest basically for all of the companies who are their customers. You don't have to be a client of Glassdoors. It seems like a lot of Glassdoors clients are in the top 10.

SPEAKER_00 10:46

Just, you know, coincidentally.

SPEAKER_02 10:51

And and so they have a whole philosophy around how they build that. It's an annual event uh award that they administer to the top CEO, and uh they do it for the for small, medium enterprise, and small. And um, so even if a company only has 50 employees, they can if they're a great place to work, yeah, yeah, be in that top 10 or glass door. So it is possible. And so it's building you have to have a strategy as an employer in order to land on that list.

SPEAKER_00 11:32

Yeah, you don't get there by accident.

SPEAKER_02 11:34

It's not by accident, it's not organic. It is there's a strategy behind it.

SPEAKER_00 11:39

What does it actually look like to build a brand that attracts talent? What does that mean? Is it because you have all the benefits? Is it because of perks? What what does that typically all entail?

SPEAKER_02 11:54

So the way that I like to look at it is especially if you're a small business, just start by with storytelling. Storytelling is so powerful. And tell the stories of your employees, even tell have your clients tell stories about you as well, because that will attract talent too. And so it's um I look at employer branding through the entire employee life cycle, which is everything from when a candidate applies to when they're exited from a company. Right. And most companies do not focus on the exit.

SPEAKER_00 12:33

That's true. They're like, oh, they're gone, they're not on my team anymore, I'm done with them. Exactly. And the in sometimes in the most nice sense, too.

SPEAKER_02 12:41

And the way you treat people on the way out leaves a lasting impression.

SPEAKER_00 12:44

That's so true.

SPEAKER_02 12:46

And who's gonna refer someone in to work for that company if they're treated poorly?

SPEAKER_00 12:51

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 12:51

Probably no one. Right. And bad news travels fast.

SPEAKER_00 12:55

Yes, yes. Well, and it that's honestly the greatest testament for someone who l came to your company and left and are still recommending the company to other people. Exactly. That's huge.

SPEAKER_02 13:06

That we call them boomerangs.

SPEAKER_00 13:08

Yeah. Well, I just hate that so many of those employee situations end badly. So, what would it look like to have an exit strategy? Does that look like a checklist of okay, this is the process? Because there's some logistical things I'm sure you kind of have to, okay, remove access from this, not because you don't like them and trust them, whatever, but they don't need access. You know, what does that look like? A checklist? Does it look like some sort of order of operations? What does that look like?

SPEAKER_02 13:40

So internally they're gonna have their own checklist on everything like you said, we need to remove their access to technology and whatever company materials they had previously. But it's treating people with dignity on the way out. And just even saying, I really appreciate the three years you spent here. Yeah, yeah, you did a lot of good. And I'm sorry you're sorry to see you go. I wish you well in your next adventure, or if someone is laid off, that is a lot different experience because that's not expected. Right. And companies do need to have a checklist if they're gonna lay people off. And as much as you know, just like what is the process for applying for unemployment? What does that look like? And it's different in every state, yeah, right, but no one tells you that on the way out. Wow, that's such a good point. And that would have been so helpful to me when I was laid off previously. And just going through that, like, here's some resources for you. Like I know you may, you know, and maybe you can't provide them, a company can't provide them with counseling or mental health services or anything, but it's putting something together that says, like, here's what you can expect after a layoff. I mean, it's it's literally like going through um withdrawal from an addiction because you experience all of those different things.

SPEAKER_00 15:08

Yeah, well, and I have to be honest and say I've never I've left places of work, but I've never gone through it where the business had to lay people off. So I don't really know a lot about navigating that, but I love what you're saying of even if you can't provide that service for them, give them resources. It's the human aspect that you were talking about.

SPEAKER_02 15:28

Exactly.

SPEAKER_00 15:28

So what has that what is that like on the receiving end of being laid off?

SPEAKER_02 15:34

So I've had the good, the bad, and the ugly for layoffs. Well, at least you had some good. Yes. So I'll I'll talk about the good. Let me think which company did it well. Um okay, maybe not good. Let's I'll just say mar marginal. Yeah. Um I've had bad, so that's that's probably the the biggest one I could talk about here because that's the one I've had the most experience with. It was literally a three-minute conversation.

SPEAKER_00 16:07

Wow. And how long were you at that place?

SPEAKER_02 16:09

Three years.

SPEAKER_00 16:11

Yeah. You're three three minutes for three years of your you know, dedication.

SPEAKER_02 16:16

Not even a thank you. Appreciate everything you did while you were here. Nothing. And it doesn't matter like whether someone was laid off, they gave notice. I mean, I had from an enterprise, these were from enterprise companies, so they should know better. Yes. And um, another one that I had I left on my own accord. And my boss at the time, she was like, feel free to go around the department and tell everybody that you're leaving. And then I found out from a friend of mine who was still there that it was two months later and they hadn't even told anybody I left.

SPEAKER_00 16:56

Oh wow. Well, so okay, that's a very practical thing that I have seen, you know, partnering with businesses. Because, you know, partnering with businesses, I see businesses have to let people go or people leave by their own choice. What is what is the etiquette? Because I've had business owners make mention of something like that. Like, should I let it be them saying it? Like, do they want to be the ones to tell everyone, or should I say it for them? What is what do you think is the right move?

SPEAKER_02 17:25

I think common courtesy is the employer or the boss letting people know. Letting them know, letting other people on the team know that this person has given notice.

SPEAKER_00 17:37

Yeah. Because also they are a part of the team. It's gonna cause shifts for everybody.

SPEAKER_02 17:43

Exactly.

SPEAKER_00 17:43

For two months later not to know, that's a little bizarre.

SPEAKER_02 17:47

Where they're like, hey, where's Carrie? Oh, she hasn't been there for two months.

SPEAKER_00 17:52

Oh my goodness. Oh my word.

SPEAKER_02 17:54

Enterprise company.

SPEAKER_00 17:56

Yeah. This and that's the reality is small business or large business, there's we all need this education and this awareness. Uh, like you mentioned, not everyone can hire a professional to come in and consult, but at least let this conversation be putting it on your radar that this is something you need to think through and probably not think through it when you need to hire or when you need to let someone go, but like think about it ahead of time.

SPEAKER_02 18:24

Have a plan.

SPEAKER_00 18:25

Yes.

SPEAKER_02 18:25

Yes, have a plan, a strategy, write it out, plan in placement. Yes, write it out, checks and balances all the way.

SPEAKER_00 18:33

All the way. So, what do you feel like is some of the key elements that makes a business attractive for talent? Like just some of the overarching things.

SPEAKER_02 18:45

Um, health insurance is huge.

SPEAKER_01 18:47

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 18:47

If a company can offer an employee, like especially paid health insurance, that is a number one differentiator. Yeah. Like you could probably work for a crappy manager if your health insurance is being paid for.

SPEAKER_00 19:01

Well, honestly, I've heard people say I want to like that they want to quit somewhere, but they won't because of the health insurance. I know. Yes, it's true. But if some I mean, so if you can't offer health insurance, is there maybe something else that you could offer that would be at least somewhat helpful in that area?

SPEAKER_02 19:22

Right. I mean, maybe it's uh building more of a community or supporting their community efforts outside. It can be as simple as giving them a day off to participate in charitable activities in town. Or um, so that's a perk that that's easy for a company to offer and it doesn't cost a lot of money. Right. Um just having professionals work there and people who are have integrity and are honest and ethical and be transparent with your employees. Like that is the biggest thing, no matter what it is, what the situation is, what you have to announce or what type of news, just be transparent. Right. Because people will appreciate transparency, they won't appreciate things being hidden from them.

SPEAKER_00 20:13

Well, and I have to say, and you can confirm or this I feel like with younger generations, that's even amplified. Transparency is so important for younger workforce.

SPEAKER_02 20:28

I would agree with that, and there's a lot of research out there that supports that. So absolutely.

SPEAKER_00 20:34

I mean, I know how me being a millennial, how I feel about it, but I've worked with both very transparent and very not transparent, and I can tell you what I prefer. Well, and I'm sure you've seen it with clients too. Yes, yes. Whenever there is walls built up, it makes you wonder what's behind that. What's behind that wall? So this really a lot of it falls on leadership to make these decisions. Absolutely. And leaders are people are not just business owners, they're not just bosses. You know, we like to use the word boss a lot of times, but I think really putting it into perspective of leadership does also set it apart that you people chose to work for you, and leadership is a lot of times what could attract them as well. And I know you can speak a lot to just leadership in general. What do you feel like great leadership really looks like today in the workplace?

SPEAKER_02 21:35

I mean, lead by example, treat people with respect. Um, I would say clarity is kindness.

SPEAKER_00 21:41

Yes, I love that. That is so true.

SPEAKER_02 21:45

Keep the keep the human and human resources.

SPEAKER_00 21:48

Right. And a lot of this does boil down to that. It really does. Treating that people that way. Right. Well, for some people it might be it might be. Uh What do employees want uh do you feel like that a lot of employers are missing in the leadership?

SPEAKER_02 22:07

Oh gosh, that is the younger generation probably uh having opportunities for learning and development.

SPEAKER_00 22:21

Yeah. Yeah. Whether they've been to college or not been to college, I I think that that's true, but that resonates um to not to want to feel like there's movement and growth. Absolutely. What are ways that employers can provide those opportunities for growth and development?

SPEAKER_02 22:40

I would say if you're a small business, like say you have 10 employees, or maybe you have 25, you can cross-train. Yeah. And that's an opportunity for employees to learn different skill sets.

SPEAKER_00 22:54

I yeah, I think we can oftentimes fall into the place of just hiring for a specific need. And then whenever you find that talent to come in and do that, they feel after you know, after a while it might be okay, but then at some point they're like, okay, I want to do something more.

SPEAKER_02 23:12

Exactly. Or if you hire them and you find out that they have a very specific skill set, like maybe they know how to edit videos. Yeah. Now don't put that on top of their their their true job. Yes. Take advantage of that, but in a in a good way. Yeah. And and let them be creative.

SPEAKER_00 23:38

That's a good point, because a lot of times that gets put on top. Oh, well, since you're here.

SPEAKER_02 23:43

And then if you can give them something, uh maybe, maybe it's not monetary, but maybe it's like a gift card to their favorite restaurant or something. Give them something in exchange for providing that service. Because people love to be creative. And so many people have talents outside of what they're hired for. And when they're not able to use those talents, then they become indifferent or stagnant, and they're yearning for more. So just give them a little bit of runway and see what they're capable of.

SPEAKER_00 24:18

That's so good. Give them a little bit of runway. I like that. I like that a lot. So I'm gonna give you a little pop pop question here. What are some of the biggest hiring mistakes you've seen?

SPEAKER_02 24:33

Well, Delena, I have a candidate experience I can share with you. Yes. Uh so I went through and so I I met a company, I went to a job fair, and I truly do believe in the power of job fairs and meeting people face to face, especially in a community like a city the size of Tulsa. Like the more face-to-face you can have with people, the better. Yeah. And so I went to a job fair, almost didn't go to the job fair. I went to a job fair, I got sides almost got sideswiped on the way to the fair. So that was interesting. So I went into it with a lot of adrenaline. And um met some people who had a table there and they were hiring for a specific role. I won't mention the the role or the company. Yeah. And had a great conversation. And uh the person followed up with me the very next week, like he said he would. I had my first interview, went great. Second interview was scheduled, that went great, everything up until the offer. And it was a Friday morning, and I received this email and it said, Thank you so much for applying. We have decided to go in a different direction. And I was like, Okay, well, I'm really disappointed because I was so excited about that role, and it really fit on so many different levels. And so I emailed the person and I said, Could I get some clarification on why I wasn't chosen? I always take this as a learning opportunity, which I encourage candidates to do. If you're not selected, go ahead and and at least ask. Yeah. Because if you don't ask, you won't know. 100%. And so he replied almost immediately and said, Wait, HR contacted you. I'll give you a call later this afternoon. And I thought, well, that's interesting. But maybe he's he's just gonna he's gonna be courteous and call me and tell me why I wasn't chosen. Yeah. So that's the phone call I was expecting. And it was around lunchtime, and I got this phone call, and he said, First off, I want to apologize. You never should have gotten that email from HR. And I said, Okay, and and he said, I we want to offer you the job. And so it was you know, low, low, low emotions first thing. Wait, low, low, low emotions first thing in the morning to like high, high, high around noon because I was offered the job. And then after that, it was it was even worse with like the drug screen and trying to find a lab and just it was it was a mess from offer to on and onboarding was a mess. Yeah. So um what could they have done better? Yeah, more communication. Um obviously they had a challenge on their end. Was it you think it was like a clerical error that you got that initial? No, they were down one person in HR. Okay. I think someone had left.

SPEAKER_01 28:00

Uh-huh.

SPEAKER_02 28:01

And so drop balls were dropped.

SPEAKER_00 28:03

Yeah, yeah. And instead of maybe say did they explain that, or was it just like confusion?

SPEAKER_02 28:10

A little bit. Yeah, a little bit. And in retrospect, I should have seen that as maybe this is not in alignment with where you need to go next. I don't have any regrets in doing the job, and I did gain experience and provided a ton of value. However, sometimes when things happen like that, like you have to listen to your intuition or listen to your gut as a candidate and say, well, if it was that messed up, right, this is probably what I'm gonna expect when I work there.

SPEAKER_00 28:46

Yeah, if there's already friction and speed bumps, then this is a demo of how they kind of operate things.

SPEAKER_02 28:55

Exactly. And I outgrew that job so fast.

SPEAKER_00 28:58

Yeah. So, okay, what are some of the practical being on the receiving end of all of that? The practical things they could have done to make that experience better was more communication and clarity.

SPEAKER_02 29:08

More communication and clarity. They probably did not have a checklist on their side.

SPEAKER_00 29:13

There you go. They just didn't have a plan properly.

SPEAKER_02 29:16

They didn't have uh an actual, they weren't dedicated to recruiting operations excellence. Right. And in order to do that, you truly you have to have strategies and you have to have policies and procedures and standard operating procedures, and everybody has to follow it. Yeah. So if someone gets if Joan gets hit by a bus, then Jeff can jump in the next day.

SPEAKER_00 29:36

So true. That is just another example of why it's so important to have these things written out in how you're gonna do them because just like that, they were down a person, and so maybe giving them the benefit of the doubt, maybe that's the only reason it didn't go well. But that's enough reason to say it's clear that they did not have a plan in place, exactly. Okay, so maybe you have another story for this one. Maybe if not, you can just speak to it. But what is one of the biggest retention mistakes that that companies make to keep good talent when you get good talent in the door? How do you keep them?

SPEAKER_02 30:13

Oh gosh, I would say if someone is leaving, if you try and counteroffer, because they may stay, but they're not gonna stay long. Yeah. Or from the studies I've seen, it's either the person doesn't stay long after that, or the company ends up getting rid of them or pushing them out shortly after that because there's resentment on one or both sides.

SPEAKER_00 30:42

Yeah. Which is something we haven't really talked about yet. Is the reason you would probably want to counter offer is because it costs money to get good people in there. How much is that costing people and and what is the you know cost per investment? I you know what you're what are you getting from that investment?

SPEAKER_02 31:03

Right. It's it's substantial financially. So pay them their worth when they start.

SPEAKER_00 31:10

Yeah, because if you lose them, you're gonna have to invest that probably more to get someone else that's quality. Exactly. Yeah, it's definitely definitely worth keeping. I love that idea of a counter offer. Uh so do you you feel like you should do a counteroff, whether that be to stay a little longer or maybe to stay while you train someone else, or what would that look like? Oh no, I would say don't do a counteroffer. Don't do a counteroffer. Don't do a counter offer because they will not they're gonna leave. They're gonna leave anyway. So that then your only thing to prevent them from leaving is to continue to give them those opportunities for growth and development to pay their what they're paying their insurance, pay their insurance if you have to.

SPEAKER_02 31:52

Perks, some other other perks of the job. Just do things to engage your employees and keep them wanting to work there and to be your champions.

SPEAKER_00 32:04

Yeah. So this is something that whenever I was before Signify, so before five years ago, when I was working uh as a marketing manager inside a business, one thing that I was exploring, which this is, you know, I'm not an expert in this stuff, but it was just things like you're talking about, I would see having people that I was leading and everything like that. Is while we couldn't offer insurance, there were other things that we would even collaborate with local businesses to offer them. Um, maybe a gym membership, you know, work with a discounted rate so that we could say, hey, you could you can get half off at this membership. What could that look like? You know, getting creative, thinking outside of the box for the businesses who maybe can't offer those high price tag benefits.

SPEAKER_02 32:53

That's a great idea. And a lot of companies do that, and they do it very well, more like rewards and loyalty. Yeah. Here's here's some perks of working for us. You can get a discount at whatever local coffee shop or yeah. Um here's here's five dollar Chick-fil-A gift card. They have to more like $10 nowadays, but yeah, gotta boost it up a little bit. Even for Starbucks, like here's a here's a five dollar Starbucks gift card. It's like that's not gonna buy me anything. Give me a ten dollar Starbucks. It's gotta be ten.

SPEAKER_00 33:26

It's a ten dollar minimum these days, baby. Right.

SPEAKER_02 33:29

Um so yeah, I love the idea of thinking outside the box and working with local businesses in the community to get involved and and those businesses will then get to know their employees as well.

SPEAKER_00 33:42

Right. When I've seen people that are in like a shopping center, they might get together with the other ones and be like, hey, we're all gonna offer each other's employees some perks. So yeah, I love that. Just just getting creative. All right, practical, practical, practical. What are three things business owners should fix immediately?

SPEAKER_02 34:02

I I think all three go to recruiting operations excellence. So candidate experience, number one. Number two, look for the quick wins, the easy things that can be done, like candidate communication.

SPEAKER_00 34:18

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 34:19

Quick win. Yeah. Really easy, especially if if they're using an applicant tracking system, maybe they are, maybe they're not. But just to make sure that uh they're looking at improving whatever those pain points are for candidates. So I would say there's three within the candidate experience and just helping out with that journey. So number one, candidate communication. Number two, just transparency. Number three, uh, educate the candidate on what the process is.

SPEAKER_00 34:52

Oh yeah.

SPEAKER_02 34:53

Is there just one interview? Yeah, are there two? Are there three? Who else will you be meeting? What does that look like? And for gosh sakes, don't ask them to do a project and don't pay them for it.

SPEAKER_00 35:04

Oh wow. Listen, that that can send me up a wall.

SPEAKER_02 35:08

Yeah. It's frustrating. So I would say like all three for me would fall on the candidate experience.

SPEAKER_01 35:15

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 35:15

And another bucket would be storytelling. Just get your owner on video or telling stories, get your employees telling stories, get your customers telling stories. Because that will help attract talent as well.

SPEAKER_00 35:28

Yeah. Storytelling is not going out of style. Never. Get them on TikTok. Hey, we need the TikToks for that. That alone. All right. So what are what are some things that you're still seeing business struggle businesses struggle with that? Okay, we I we talked about how COVID was a hard hit and we're recovering from that. What are, now that we're kind of like coming out of the ashes, it is 2026. What are we still struggling with that maybe we've just as hung on since COVID?

SPEAKER_02 36:02

Oh gosh. I know, I mean, I've heard that people say, and this is probably older generations, that like Gen Z and millennials that they don't want to work.

SPEAKER_00 36:15

I've heard that. I I've heard that a couple million times.

SPEAKER_02 36:18

Yes. And I don't think that's the case. They don't want to settle working for a company where they're not respected.

SPEAKER_00 36:29

Yes. I wish I could clap and not like make this microphone go crazy because that is so true. I agree with you. They do want to work. They do want to work, but they want they want to feel valued. Yes. Yes.

SPEAKER_02 36:43

And not just like a number.

SPEAKER_00 36:45

Yeah. So changing that. Even if you're in a large business, you gotta change that.

SPEAKER_02 36:50

You have to you have to have a good internal culture first, and then that radiates outward because your employees will become your spokespeople. And and even implementing uh an employee advocacy strategy where you do give them the tools and the training to talk about the company externally and what that looks like.

SPEAKER_00 37:14

Yeah, yeah, it's so good. They want to be valued, they don't want to be a number. I love that. Okay, so before we close, I always ask this question, but it relates more to your business specifically. So we always ask the question, what do you not have fully figured out but or building through anyway? So in the concept of your business, it's you know, you you work with other people's businesses, so you're like championing them, but focusing on you and the business that you're building to for a lot of different uh a lot of different areas, keynote speaking, inspiring, encouraging, and also helping businesses in this these areas. What are some things that you don't have fully figured out, but you're building through anyway?

SPEAKER_02 37:58

Oh gosh, always learning, always learning, always learning. Um, I'm so I have not networked that much in Tulsa. And where are you originally from? Originally from Madison, Wisconsin. Okay. Moved here from Dallas, and I was in Dallas for just shy of 14 years, and I've been here for about eight. Okay. And I had remote jobs when I was here, so there wasn't a huge need for me to get out into the community and to network with people. I'm an introvert, I know it's hard to believe. And so, like, you can throw me on a stage where there's a thousand people in the audience and I am in my element. I'm in my comfort zone. If you put me in a room full of 300 people and say, okay, network and get to know people, like that's my kryptonite.

SPEAKER_00 38:56

I'm like, oh I think a lot of people can relate to that though. Please help. It can be a little intimidating.

SPEAKER_02 39:05

So it's that's a little bit intimidating. So I'm just I'm looking to meet more people, more business owners here in the Tulsa area, and to get to know them and what they're passionate about, and how we might be able to collaborate on something. I was recently uh um did a presentation for Creative Mornings, which was at Gradient, and that was a new opportunity for me to share my story.

SPEAKER_01 39:34

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 39:35

And so I'm a I had a near-death experience. I'm a brain aneurysm survivor, and so I'm looking for different ways where I can help impact people and help them turn whatever it was, whatever that pain was, whatever that trauma was, into gold, and to really have that radical self-acceptance, whether that is like one-on-one, coaching, whether it's giving a presentation to employees of a business, right? Anything like that. I just I want to give back to humanity in that way and help people heal. And so that's probably been one of my biggest struggles so far is just trying to figure out okay, who should I meet in Tulsa? Where are those events? What events should I be attending? Where should I be hanging out to meet those people? Um, and I I would say that's probably one of the biggest challenges right now because I do want to become more well known in Tulsa versus Dallas. I'm super networked in Dallas.

SPEAKER_00 40:40

Yeah. Well, I think that's a lot of business owners have to make those decisions of where is the best use of my time. And networking is a huge thing. You could spin, you could literally network every single day of the week. Oh, absolutely. But it has to be, you have to figure out, you know, what's the best, what scenarios, best formats, best uh for me to use my time in that way. So that's good. Okay, so if people want to connect with you uh online, they want to maybe they're like, listen, I need this, I need this woman to come in and help me. Where can they find you online?

SPEAKER_02 41:18

Great question, Delena. So I spend 99% of my time on LinkedIn. Okay, and you can find me under Carrie Corcorant. I also have a YouTube channel, and you can find me under Unbreakable Light on YouTube. I share tips and tricks for employer branding, especially heavy on the candidate experience side. I do connect with people on Facebook. I have a public profile. If you send me a friend request, just let me know who you are and how you found me. And if you do have any opportunities for speaking to your group, I would be honored to do that for you.

SPEAKER_00 42:02

Yeah, I'm gonna have to hear that story. I'm gonna have to hear that story that you shared recently. Gotta listen to it. That's good. So reach out to her, connect with her, definitely hit her up on YouTube. She has all that great content there. But that is it for this session of the back office. If this conversation gave you clarity, a new angle, or even just a reminder that you're not the only one navigating this, then it just did its job. Take what's useful, apply it, move on it. No one has it fully figured out, but we're building anyway. And if you found this valuable, share it with another operator who is building. And you can always hang out with us in between sessions at Signify Marketing Social. I'm Delena Dillon, and we will see you back here next time.