The Strategy Session: How to Make Smarter Marketing Decisions

In this episode of The Back Office, Dalayna Dillon is joined by photographer and business owner Traci Baker in a slightly different format — a strategy session designed to help business owners think more strategically about their marketing.

Instead of reacting to trends, posting randomly, or chasing visibility, this conversation walks through a simple four-part framework for making intentional marketing decisions. Together, Dalayna and Traci unpack the difference between reactive marketing and strategic marketing, using real examples from service-based businesses to show how clarity, messaging, and customer experience all work together.

If your marketing has ever felt scattered, inconsistent, or overwhelming, this conversation will help you reset your approach.

No one has it fully figured out. But we’re building anyway.

Show Notes

Host: Dalayna Dillon, Signify Marketing
Guest Co-Host: Traci Baker, Traci Baker Photography
Topic: Strategic Marketing vs Reactive Marketing

This episode introduces a new style of conversation on The Back Office — a collaborative, practical discussion focused on the real decisions behind running and marketing a business.

Joined by photographer and entrepreneur Traci Baker, Dalayna walks through a four-step framework used to guide marketing strategy and eliminate guesswork. Drawing from real client experiences and day-to-day business operations, the conversation highlights how clarity around goals, customer behavior, and messaging leads to stronger marketing outcomes.

The Framework: A Guide for Strategic Marketing Decisions

1. What is the actual objective?
 Not more visibility.
 Not more engagement.

What outcome matters right now?

If the objective isn’t clear, the marketing will feel scattered.

2. Where is the friction in the customer journey?

If people are discovering you but not converting, the issue may be trust or clarity.

If people inquire but don’t buy, the issue may be positioning, offer structure, or pricing communication.

If people buy once but never return, the issue may be experience or retention.

Marketing should solve specific friction — not create noise.

3. What message actually moves someone forward?

At this stage, the question becomes:

What does the audience need to understand before they’re ready to act?

That might be:
 • Education about the problem
 • Proof that the solution works
 • Clarity around the process
 • Confidence in the result

The best marketing removes uncertainty.

4. What format best delivers that message?

Now you decide the tactic.

Maybe that’s:
 • Short-form video
 • A client story
 • A breakdown of the process
 • A myth vs. truth post
 • A behind-the-scenes explanation

Content format should serve the message — not the other way around.

Find Traci:

Facebook | Instagram | Website

About The Back Office

Hosted by Dalayna Dillon
Founder & Creative Director of Signify Marketing

The Back Office invites listeners into honest conversations about marketing, growth, leadership, and the real decisions shaping active businesses.

Facebook/Instagram: @signifymarketingsocial 

www.signifymarketing.social

Transcript

SPEAKER_01 0:07

Welcome back to the back office. I'm Delena Dillon, the founder and creative director of Signify Marketing, and this is where you sit in on real strategy. Each episode we step inside an active business and have honest conversations about marketing, growth, leadership, and the decision shaping what happens next. No one has it fully figured out, but we are building anyway. Today's episode is going to look a little bit different. Instead of a traditional interview, I've invited Tracy Baker back, who you met in episode four. If you haven't already, go back and listen to her full episode. It was so good. So she's gonna sit in today as my co-host as we walk through an actual marketing strategy conversation. We're gonna we're gonna work through some things. So today we're gonna work through a framework that I use to guide marketing decisions, both in my business and with clients. And so we're talking we're talking about the difference between reactive marketing and strategic marketing and how business owners can stop guessing and start making intentional decisions about what they create and share. So if you have felt like your marketing is all over the place and just scattered and you're just throwing things and see what sticks, this is this is the episode, this is the conversation you need to be a part of. Tune in. So, Tracy, have you seen this? Like just this scatteredness of of what people can easily fall into a market. It's not because they're bad business owners, it's just a common thing. Whenever you are in the day-to-day, sometimes you're just trying to survive. And marketing is often the thing that immediately goes on the back burner.

SPEAKER_00 1:48

Or copying someone else. True. Because you think they're successful.

SPEAKER_01 1:52

Yes, listen, we just talked about this off camera. Not you can't judge every business by how they're doing on social media. Um now they should be putting, you know, you want to put your best foot forward on social media, but you definitely can't judge a business and compare yourself to a business based on what they're putting out there online because there's a whole nother story happening behind the scenes. The bank account can show different.

unknown 2:17

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 2:18

Hey, I'm glad you said that.

SPEAKER_00 2:20

That's true. Social media is free and you should be using it. Yes. Because that's one thing you're not having to pay for.

SPEAKER_01 2:26

Yeah, and so something we we talked about, but not too too much in Tracy's episode is that she does branding shoots, but also she does social media marketing for businesses, also. So share a little bit about that part of your business.

SPEAKER_00 2:40

So, what I do for businesses, like I have I pick ideal clients. That's how I know how to market my stuff for in my social media. It is usually a male-owned business who can't stand social media and just knows they need to have a present. And I want them to have a sense of humor because I have a sense of humor, sometimes inappropriate humor, but oh well.

SPEAKER_01 3:05

I love that you know exactly who you're marketing to because that is like a superpower. It really is. Oh yeah. It completely guides how you craft every caption, how you think about the post. Um, yes, yeah, it it changes everything. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 3:23

If if you don't have a target that you're putting out for, you're not gonna attract any of them. So true. You know, you're gonna miss every time. Yes, yes. Uh or you're going to attract the wrong, yeah, wrong clients.

SPEAKER_01 3:37

And there's such there is such a thing as the wrong clients. Oh, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 3:41

Do you have any examples? You find you find that out the hard way.

SPEAKER_01 3:44

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 3:45

Um in the photography end of it, yes, but I have learned to weed that out ahead of time, and I'm not afraid to say we're not a match.

SPEAKER_01 3:53

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 3:54

Um, but I can give you some other people to go check out. Right. Um, in my case, it would be like a DIY person that wants to DIY their own senior announcements, DIY their own pictures on the wall. Um, that's not my client. Yeah. That's not who I'm looking for because I would work extra hard to have them get the bare minimum that wouldn't even bring in an income for it.

SPEAKER_01 4:17

That's, I mean, it's and that's fine. There's no shame in saying like this is not my ideal client. Yeah, and there's some industries where you have an ideal client, but you can cater, you know, you can still serve other people, especially in more broad of industry. You are very focused and and specific, but there and same with me in marketing. Um, but there are definitely some businesses, like, for example, I was talking with through DMs. We were talking on her episode about check your DMs. I was talking to a restaurant business through DMs, and I asked them because they were kind of wanting to put together something marketing-wise, and I asked them, I was like, Okay, who are you trying to really target right now?

SPEAKER_02 4:57

Uh they knew nothing.

SPEAKER_01 4:59

Well, um, there, and I'm not shady, no shade on them at all, but I asked that because I wanted to make for sure that this thing we were putting together was the most beneficial for them. Yes. You know, to put it out there, like this is who they're wanting to focus. Of course, they're a restaurant. Anyone can eat here, anyone can come hang out here, but who I wanted to know who they were really wanting to focus on. It's your food attracting. Yes. And the environment. Yeah. You know, they have um uh event space as well built into the restaurant. So, like, who are you trying to attract? And they kind of basically they gave me the answer of you know, most everybody. And I've anybody that wants to spend money here. Yeah, and I've had that conversation with an with other businesses where I'm like, okay, who do you want to attract? And they're like, we think we can serve everyone. I'm like, yeah, you can serve everyone, but who for your marketing, who are you targeting? These are the people that are gonna be able to do that. I'd like to see more commands and gonna keep you in business, like your bread and butter. Yes, like on your website, you say on your website, what is your bread and butter? Yeah, you know, and then you say social media is my jam. I thought that was super cute, but um, you need to know that, and so I think that's why a lot of times people feel like their marketing is scattered, um, and then they can result in having a bunch of reactive marketing. Do you know what I mean by reactive marketing? Okay, so speak to that. What kind of reactive marketing have you seen?

SPEAKER_00 6:24

I have seen with with mine is someone just from a random comment um or they see it on someone else's post and it's like, oh, okay, well, I'm gonna market to that. Yeah. Um, let's talk about that. Um, the negative um people are finding any type of attention is okay attention. Um, so they try to be negative about it because they know that's gonna cause more engagement on their post. It's let's make somebody mad.

SPEAKER_01 6:55

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 6:55

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 6:56

I've seen that actually. Um, mostly from like uh individual content creators. They literally do things to invoke people to go to the comment section and go off.

SPEAKER_00 7:08

Any engagement wins.

SPEAKER_01 7:10

I know, because they're like, hey, I'm getting paid every time you comment. Yeah. But that's not what we want. That's not how we want to position our business.

SPEAKER_02 7:17

No, no.

SPEAKER_01 7:17

It's not how we want to position it. Um, okay, so let's talk about some signs that a business is guessing instead of strategizing. Um, I and again, I this is a judgment-free zone, right, Tracy? Yes. Judgment-free. We're just we're just trying to level up marketing. So, because I see this a lot. I see this a lot. I see a lot of businesses maybe a few hours after they open, you can tell that they like are probably sitting around with nothing to do because there's no customers in the store. And they start making posts about, hey, we're open. Come by today. We're open from the center of the center.

SPEAKER_00 7:54

Well, here's a vulnerable post. If you all don't support me, oh my word. I'm going to have to shut my doors. Oh, I've I've I know I've seen this in the you it's cringy. I'm sorry, it's cringy. And and that's to me where someone saw it and saw the engagement that it got. So, ooh, how can I be vulnerable? Yeah. And get people to come support my business.

SPEAKER_01 8:20

Yeah, there is a business that I follow on social media. And it's not the thing is they don't post, they've I've seen that post from them. They didn't post it once, they post it every couple weeks.

SPEAKER_00 8:29

Yeah, I I I'm followed quite a few that were like that.

SPEAKER_01 8:32

I here's can I just say this? This sounds this sounds super harsh, but I'm a business owner and you're a business owner, so we can say it business owner to business owner, because we're all in this grind together, right? Nobody owes you their business. Nobody owes you anything. Yeah. Like you're creating a product and a service and an experience, and if it doesn't speak to people, it's not maybe it's not even that the product, the service, the experience is bad. Maybe you haven't framed it and strategized your marketing so they understand what they're getting.

SPEAKER_00 9:05

To attract and repel. You're going to attract some, you're going to repel some, and to know that there's always someone being repelled, no matter what. So quit worrying about that. You're just trying to attract the right people.

SPEAKER_01 9:19

The right people. And um, yeah, I just I think that sometimes we can get, especially with small businesses, like especially with brick and mortar businesses, sometimes our language, our messaging can make it seem like you owe us the support to show up and support small businesses. Listen, I'm all about supporting small businesses, but I also understand no one owes me anything. Yeah. I'm there to provide the best experience for them, the best service for them. And I understand that if they don't like it, they can go somewhere else. Exactly. I understand that. And I think that that it it gives us a level of humility that I think every business owner needs. That um we have to do our best to not just do the service and the product have the best product, all that, but to market it the best we can so that people understand the value they're getting because you have something that's valuable, you have something that's worth supporting, but you have to let people know that you have to show them that. And um, so we're gonna dig into more more of that also. Um, but uh as you yourself work with photography clients, business owners, what do you see people doing when they feel stuck in their marketing? What do you feel like their go-to is? Run a special. Oh.

SPEAKER_00 10:32

Run a special. Um cheapen your prices. Yeah, that's true. To get more more people in the door. That is very true. When you could be marketing ahead of time.

SPEAKER_01 10:43

Oh, man.

unknown 10:44

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 10:45

I don't think I can, yeah. I don't think I can get too far into that because I have too many examples of that. I think I got too many examples of that. Well, okay, so we're gonna dig dive into this framework that I mentioned. This is something I shared on our social media. So if you don't follow Signify Marketing Social, give it a follow on Facebook, on Instagram, and on TikTok, but you know, that's mostly for fun videos. But this is something I shared, but I felt like I posted it and I shared it and I was like, this is so, like, this is so helpful. I think it's helpful. Um, but I think it needs more discussion. And so I knew Tracy was the perfect person to talk through this with me some more. But um, this warrants talking through and walking through because having a framework to use when making marketing decisions immediately makes your marketing more intentional and strategic. Like you can have a bad plan, but if you have a plan, you're already you're off that couch, baby. You're already going. Yes, you're already up and going. So this is just a quick framework as you're trying to figure out a marketing plan and uh Tracy plugs having a huge ginormous calendar.

SPEAKER_00 11:50

Uh a year at a glance. Yes. It needs to be a year at a glance. Yes. Now I I did try this year. Uh I'm all about trying new things. I got the um Jesse, what's his name? Um Spanx Lady's husband. Jesse Seitzer, Seltzer, something like that. He the big, big A calendar. Yes, yes, yes. Big A calendar. Yes. Does not work with my brain. Really? Cannot because the month is laid out horizontally. Okay. So every month. And it's light, it's hard to see. So I've had to actually get a dry erase and write the actual date on them.

SPEAKER_01 12:22

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 12:23

Um Swift makes a calendar. It's like $70. It's like five feet by six feet, I think. It's on the wall. The best thing that you can do is put one of those up for a year, mark things on it, have your whatever, you will find where your slow months are. Yeah. And when it's your slow month, that's the time that you set all your marketing.

SPEAKER_01 12:47

Oh, that's so good. Yeah. Man, but here's the thing is you have to plan ahead for this. Yeah. You have to look at the year. And so, what would you say for someone who's like, okay, we're in April right now? What if they were gonna start trying to implement this now, what do you feel like they should do? Should they go ahead and just start for the meeting or just go ahead and what do you think they should start with that?

SPEAKER_00 13:05

With the calendar. Yeah. Get the calendar. Okay, yeah. Um, and uh the way like with photography, when you see something in a retail store happening, like all of a sudden um they it Easter's gone, even though it's this weekend. Right, right. Easter's gone. Yeah. Um, what season are they starting on? That's where you should be already heading into it. So you mark it on your calendar ahead of time. Yeah. Eight weeks before, I need to start um taking pictures that are with this season. Yes. So that you have it.

SPEAKER_01 13:35

Yes, that's so good. And with your branding, I she does branding photo shoots. You do that as well because you I know you've told told me before, like in the summer, you could be shooting fall and winter. Yes. And so they're they're out there sweating.

SPEAKER_00 13:48

I did mine in July in downtown Tulsa in a sweater.

SPEAKER_01 13:52

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 13:53

Gripping.

SPEAKER_01 13:54

But you gotta plan ahead. Yeah. You and that was a hot coffee. Yes. And that was the time when you had to plan ahead for that. So that's when you needed to execute. Yeah. Okay, so step one of this framework when you're up facing to strategize your marketing, step one is to figure out what is the actual objective? What are you actually trying to do? Because if you don't lay this out, you don't know if you were successful because after you execute any marketing thing, then you have to go back and be like, did this work? Was this effective? Do we want to do this again? What changes do we need to make to it next time around? So, first thing, what is the objective? Do we need more visibility? Do we need more engagement? Those are not the objectives. Because on social media, and we can speak to this doing social media marketing, it's great to get visibility and engagement. But if those don't convert into sales or into some other deliverable that you are looking for, then it's kind of pointless. People love going viral, but I think people would like sales more.

SPEAKER_00 14:56

No desire to go viral.

SPEAKER_01 14:57

No desire. They can't handle you.

SPEAKER_00 14:59

No, I I just no, it's too much work. Who would no? Like, I as long as I'm doing what I love doing, I don't want to have to have the extra stress.

SPEAKER_01 15:09

Yeah. So ultimately, it's great to get, like you said, those heartfelt posts that we saw coming out, especially at the beginning of the year. Did you see a lot of businesses putting those out? A lot of restaurants. Yeah, they got crazy engagement. But what I would be interested to see is honestly, they probably did get an uptick in sales like that first month, but like, did that sustain?

SPEAKER_00 15:31

Yeah, and and then they try it again and it's a flop. Yeah, yeah. Um, and then people get put out because it's like you're always complaining. You have um, you want to make sure that people are not getting um it's not buyer's remorse, but it's the um where I feel guilty when I heard a business went out, yeah, because I didn't wasn't able to support them like I did. Yeah. And I was like, I can't do it for every business. Right.

SPEAKER_01 15:59

And not every business is your the business that's gonna cater to what you need, exactly. So it's important to kind of frame out what is the objective because um when marketing feels scattered, then the objective isn't clear. What are you wanting? What's the move you're wanting to lead people to? So we can we can when the objective is vague, people are like, okay, what do you want me to do? Visit your website, come to your store, share this post. What do you what do you want me to do? Because there's I mean, there's a lot of posts that um here's the deal is sometimes you're just making a post and you don't feel like, well, this is just to make a post, then it means it's useless. Yeah, you wasted your time. Nobody needs more noise.

SPEAKER_00 16:42

You could have gone and baked cookies, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 16:44

If it doesn't have a reason to go out, then it was pointless. And and that becomes more the more you do that, the more people start tuning you out. Because what you're posting, what you're putting out there isn't relevant to them, it's not informative, it doesn't give value, it's not interesting, and um I know some people love to just put out entertaining, but honestly, if if it's entertaining but has no value, just cut it. Cut it.

SPEAKER_00 17:13

Yeah. If you can if it's entertaining, entertaining's more for I would say in your stories. Yes, that brings your personality out in the stories, yes, and people can tap on through. Yeah. Um, I've always said about slow scroll. Um just by putting your face out there will slow a scroll, which shows social media, the algorithm that you you have something interesting. Yeah. And don't push it to all the same thing to every social media. It's okay to post the same thing, but make it five days later. Um here's my example. Yeah. Most people, when they're on social media, they're scrolling. Here's my post, they see it, they engage with it, then they shut out of that, say Instagram, and then they pop open Facebook. Well, because of that, with their connection, it automatically shows that same post if I pushed it there. What's going to happen? They've already seen it, so they're gonna swipe quicker. Yeah. So that's telling the algorithm on Facebook that it wasn't worthy. But if you waited five days later to post it, you would get a whole different audience that sees it.

SPEAKER_02 18:23

Yes.

SPEAKER_00 18:24

And it can be the same post, you just talk to your audience that's in that social media. A hundred percent. You talk different in the different social medias.

SPEAKER_01 18:31

Well, because you'll notice that you'll have a little bit of a different audience on different platforms. Per se. And they're wanting different things. Like when they're on Facebook, they're gonna they'll read more. Yes, they will read more on Facebook than they will on Instagram. Yep. So consider that. Um, and consider who it is exactly that you're talking to on these platforms. So just to be super practical, some examples examples of objectives that you might have are okay, you want more qualified leads, maybe. Maybe you're getting leads, but they're like not your people. So they just end up being a lead, a wasted lead. Yeah, you know. Um, you might want more booked consultations, higher conversions, maybe repeat customers, maybe you get customers in, but like you don't see them again for who knows how long. So these are all examples of possible objectives you might have when going through this this framework here. Um do you have an example of like what you would say is one of your objectives when you're trying to, like, what are you trying to do with marketing? You want probably qualified clients.

SPEAKER_00 19:35

Yes, and mine is usually uh mine are geared towards the mom and the woman business owner, moms of seniors. Um I like right now is ending a senior year. We're going into graduation and that, and I'm actively marketing to get next year's. Yeah, which is weird how I do mine. I really actively marketed as soon as I started posting this year's senior pictures. Um, here's sign up for my email. So that's my key is like go sign up for the email because that's where you're going to get the information.

SPEAKER_01 20:07

But right there, you're telling them exactly what you want them to do. You're being super clear. On one post, you're not saying sign up for my email, and the other one you're not saying send me a DM if you're interested, and another one saying give me a call, fill out my it's you see how that could easily get scattered, and one way to tighten that up is to do exactly what she just described. Be super clear with what that customer's next step is.

SPEAKER_02 20:29

Yes. So the call to action.

SPEAKER_01 20:31

Yes. Okay, so a little takeaway. You cannot build the right marketing if you don't know what success looks like. So figure out your objective. Moving on to step two of this framework. Where is the friction in the customer journey? Your marketing should solve a specific friction, not create noise. We don't want to just put more noise and more things to consume out there. We want things that are gonna solve something that's slowing those customers down from moving through that customer journey that you've mapped out. And Tracy's really great at customer journey. She knows her avatar in both businesses. She knows who she wants to go after.

SPEAKER_00 21:11

I know my avatar, by golly. I sat down and did from the mom who drives the SUV because you know the minivan's not cool enough for her and her 3.2 kids. So it is so important.

SPEAKER_01 21:25

It is so important to know your customer journey to not just guess, because if you're guessing, they're gonna guess. We never want that to be the case. We want them to move through whatever your funnel looks like, you know, inquiry on to the next step, to the next step, to sale, to even after the sale. That's not you don't you want them to be a repeat customer.

SPEAKER_00 21:47

It's easier to keep repeat customers than it is to find new ones.

SPEAKER_01 21:51

Yes, it is.

SPEAKER_00 21:52

Keep that in your head all the time.

SPEAKER_01 21:55

Yeah, so much cheaper. So different problems require different solutions. So there could be Couple things that you might experience, and I know for me in the marketing area, um, some of these things I can have the best strategy, but some of them even go beyond marketing to their customer experience. So some different examples of problems you might be having in your customer journey is maybe people are discovering you, but they're not converting. So let's say you're looking at uh your website stat your analytics on your website, your social media click-throughs, you know, all these things that you can look on stories and who's clicking links, who's filling out forms, and they open it, they might click the link, they might go to the form, but then they're not converting. So that might be an example of something that maybe there's a trust issue. There's friction there, for sure friction. Maybe it's a trust issue. Maybe they don't know enough to trust you yet. And so maybe then you would strategize some marketing around who we are, what we believe, how we do things, the value that we offer. So that's kind of how you could um strategize towards eliminating that friction. Another example might be people inquire, but then they don't buy. And sometimes that's fine. Like, like for you, you might have people that inquire, but like you said, if you're doing a DIY something, no, it's not a good fit. Yeah. And that's fine. But maybe there's let's just say that Tracy Baker Photography got some inquiries and they were the ideal client, but they didn't take the next step. They didn't, they they inquired, but they they didn't take the next step. Some reasons why, and I'm not saying this is for her, but I will run a special. Yeah, run a special now! I'm gonna run a special. That's reactive marketing, friends. Yeah, so maybe there's some clarity. Maybe they didn't understand, okay, how much is due now, how much does due later, which I know she has a very strong process of explaining all of that. But for someone else in her field, maybe maybe you experience that and you're like, why didn't they follow through? Maybe, maybe you just didn't tell them the pricing.

SPEAKER_00 23:57

Also, know that there are seven touch points. So seven interactions before they do follow through. Wow. So keep that in mind, not just because they ghosted you one time, follow up with them. Yes, yes. Um hey, I saw I saw that we messaged, is there anything else that I can do? It it needs seven go go check out their Facebook page or whatever, see what they're posting, and then do you have something along that line that would go towards them? Yeah. Um, they they ask on their Facebook page. Does anybody know any family photographers? Well, okay, they ghosted me and they're looking for family photography, so should I post some pictures? Family photography?

SPEAKER_01 24:44

Maybe they think I don't do family photography because I post so many seniors.

SPEAKER_00 24:47

And that's what I I mean I do family photography, but it's really for my seniors. Yeah, for their families, yeah, and way longer previous clients.

SPEAKER_01 24:57

Yeah, for sure. So that's that's such a great practical example of that. Um, if you have people who buy once but never return, maybe they had a bad experience and you should reach out.

SPEAKER_00 25:08

Yeah, and sometimes you find out they just can't afford it. Yeah. Um, that's why. And don't apologize for your pricing. No, absolutely not. And the fact that some of those people that know they can't afford it are some of your best marketers. They will still throw your name out there. Oh, go check out Tracy. Go. I've never used her, but oh my gosh, you know, that they're some of your best ones.

SPEAKER_01 25:30

Yes, a hundred percent. So those are all really important things to figure out where what is stopping these leads from moving through this customer journey. Step three, moving on to step three. What message actually moves someone forward? What message is actually gonna take this person further in their customer journey? So the best kind of marketing removes uncertainty. People don't want to make moves on things that they don't understand, that they're unclear on, that they feel uncertain on. We we we want to eliminate uncertainty with our marketing. So at this stage, the question becomes what does the audience need to understand before they're ready to act? For you, what are some of those things?

SPEAKER_00 26:16

Well, I don't know.

SPEAKER_01 26:18

Well, we'll definitely who you who you work with, mostly seniors and their families, and that's what you mostly do. You need they need to know there's a deposit due up front.

SPEAKER_00 26:30

And to have a system, once you're can somebody even makes contact with you, you should have a system with what you're saying to them. Yes. Um if if they are price shopping in my industry, uh, I don't give the price right off the bat. I will say an average, the average client spends the case. I do the same thing. But can I let you know what all is involved? Yeah. Um, because there's so much more than we're showing up taking pictures and you get the the digitals and go home.

SPEAKER_01 27:03

Yes. Yes. And I do the same thing also because it's hard for you to some in some industries, it's hard for you to really know what that customer needs right at that point. Because you need to dig into what, you know, especially for my in my industry, like you need to know like where they're at, what what problems are they trying to solve. And so you kind of need to, if you have it planned out, what you're gonna say, how you're gonna ask the right questions.

SPEAKER_00 27:27

So, like in mine, like if they contact me for a senior, yeah. I need senior pictures for my child. I have set questions. It's like, okay, what school are they graduating from? Because if it's too far off, then you cut off at that point. It's like I have some photographers in that area, but it can also be uh is it a male or a female? Because that's completely different. Um, their idea is I need a 30-minute, $200 session. In this process, you're going to get that stuff figured out. Yeah. And and don't just cut them off if they're not your client. You can suggest other people.

SPEAKER_01 28:01

Yes, yes. And that shows that you are a person that wants to offer value.

SPEAKER_00 28:05

Yeah. Uh, and I I have people that haven't come back, haven't used me, but they come back and ask me questions. Yeah. Um, what would I look for in a wedding photographer?

SPEAKER_01 28:13

You know, it's like, okay, well, let me give you my list. Yes. Yes. So some possible message types, so types of messages that help eliminate uncertainty. One could be education, that's huge. No matter what industry you're in, you need to educate people on what you do, what you offer, maybe even beyond that, like things within your industry that people are interested in. And I think sometimes people think they people are just aren't interested. They're interested. If they're following you, they are interested. So share, educate. Proof, that would be like testimonials, before and afters, um, you know, stories.

SPEAKER_00 28:50

So the proof. One one I just did this morning was made a real, hasn't been posted yet. But um, when I deliver announcements in their product, like last night I went to their home because I had to hang the collage, and I just get a quick what you call b-roll of her opening the announcements and her expression of it. Are they always ideal? No, but uh, she was mad because she didn't know this was gonna happen and she was not all proofrewed up for it. But that's a very easy. If I keep posting that of the other one of the moms crying at the image reveal, um, they know. So people come back to tune in. If they know I've had an image reveal, we're gonna see if the mom did it. What's Tracy's percentage of the crying mom? Has that repelled some people because they don't want to be crying on camera? Absolutely. I'm sure it has. I love to watch it. I haven't had any issues with it.

SPEAKER_01 29:43

Not gonna lie, I like to watch it. It's sweet.

SPEAKER_00 29:46

It's even better when the senior cries, too. Yes because that that that's the tough one.

SPEAKER_01 29:50

So sweet. Um, another thing, so education, proof, um, it also clarity, posts that just bring clarity. This is what you need to know. Everything you need to know. You know, some people are planners, they need to know what to expect, where to go, where to enter. I mean, if you're a storefront, okay, show me your front door. There's so many this is crazy. So many businesses don't show their front door.

SPEAKER_00 30:13

Oh, oh, that drives me insane. Thank you. Yes. How to get there. You can have it on Google or Maps, and it still doesn't show it. And it's like, where am I supposed to park? What it where how do you get into your building?

SPEAKER_01 30:26

Well, because sometimes you'll see the inside of a building and you're like, oh, you you have in your mind that it's going to be one way, but then you see the outside. I'm like, wait, is this it?

SPEAKER_00 30:32

Because this looks so different from Yeah, or parking is really bad in that area, and you've got to park two blocks away and you don't know what the building is that you're trying to get to because your little thing will just go, you have arrived. I have.

SPEAKER_01 30:44

Where I don't see anything. Yes. That is so easy. Like, literally, post a picture of your business on if you're a storefront, post an outside picture of your business. Um, and also message types could be confidence. So an inside look in action showing um even some of the behind the scenes, so showing some of that behind the scenes shows the process of whatever product you have. I love seeing it, even like in industries such as like manufacturing. I love seeing things get put together.

SPEAKER_00 31:11

I I did a um a collaboration with my town of workers of Wagner. Yeah. And I got to go around all these. We have the shopping cart, uh, you and Arco is in Wagner. Not at all what I thought it was gonna look like inside there. I mean, they're traveling along the ceiling. It was crazy, crazy. I was just fascinated.

SPEAKER_01 31:31

But it's cool and people like seeing that.

SPEAKER_00 31:33

And do you know that they have robots that um I couldn't video anything around the robots because they're top secret. So it's a very Willy Wonka. Very wonki-fide.

SPEAKER_01 31:43

Well, that, yeah, maybe some sneaking, some private. No, I'm joking. Don't do that.

SPEAKER_00 31:47

The fencing around it.

SPEAKER_01 31:48

Don't do that, don't do that. Last and final step, we'll talk through step four. What format format best delivers that message? So this step kind of connects marketing to psychology, and you kind of touched on it earlier of even just across platforms, but the content format should serve the message, not the other way around. Sometimes, and some of this kind of come with like following trends or copying something you've seen, but we need to make for sure that the message we're we've strategized, we've worked towards this is the message we need to get out there. What's the best format to do that? So most people start here, and that is the mistake. They start with the format rather than strategize what format best serves their purpose. So, um, that is something that could be, I mean, format types that can be something like short form video, whether it's gonna be a photo, a carousel post, a real like that's the format. There's so many different formats, but we got to figure out what's gonna best tell the message, best communicate the message. And sometimes it might mean using the same message in multiple formats.

SPEAKER_00 32:51

Yes, that's how yeah, yes. And to pick your platform and and which one is easier for you to navigate. Is that where your audience is hanging out? If not, wherever they're hanging out, you need to move to that platform. Exactly. If that's who your ideal clients on TikTok, you need to get to TikTok.

SPEAKER_01 33:10

Exactly. So just to make this all super practical, we're we that we have not practiced this. We're gonna do a practice here. Okay. We're gonna just build this together. Let's walk through an example of this framework. So we're gonna choose an industry or whatever. So we either we could either talk about from you as a photographer standpoint, or we can pick something different, maybe a service provider, a local brick and mortar business, or maybe a solopreneur that's coaching, that's doing coaching. Which one would you like to do? We're gonna build out let's do the brick and mortar. Brick and mortar, okay, brick and mortar business. So let's walk through this framework together. We are brick and mortar business owners, we don't know what the business is. We it's fine. We we're good. What is the objective? What are we trying to do? Probably get more people inside.

unknown 33:55

Yes.

SPEAKER_01 33:55

I mean, it's great that they visit our website, but if we don't sell product on our website, let's say we don't sell product on a website. Let's say that. So if we don't sell product on a website, we need them inside our business, right? Okay, so that's the objective. Where is the friction?

SPEAKER_00 34:12

Probably parking.

SPEAKER_01 34:13

Well, there's that. Parking might be a problem. The friction, let's just say for our particular scenario, that the friction is we're in a new part of town that's just been developed. Okay, so a lot of people aren't hanging out here yet. Okay. So that is that's kind of the friction, is that it's hard to get people to come into our part of town because they don't realize that it's been improved and developed so much and it's so nice, and it's got so much to offer. So let's just say that that's the friction. We need to get people in there. So, what message is needed to communicate? In this place, I would say it's not just about our business, it's about the area. Yeah. So I would probably recommend highlighting, of course, your business. Hey, this is where we are. Show a picture where you're at, where to park, you know, show all of that. Show maybe some videos of coming down to the area and check, you know, walking down the street and walking up to the building. And if you're going to do those videos, put your location.

SPEAKER_00 35:14

It is so irritating to see a reel that looks like a really cool place. You go to their wall, there is no location. You have to poke around, talk about friction.

SPEAKER_01 35:24

I have seen so many businesses. I will go to their profile and there's no address. Then I have to go to their website and I have to find it, or I have to Google them, or whatever it may be. That's friction.

SPEAKER_02 35:33

Friction. A lot of friction.

SPEAKER_01 35:35

A lot of friction. Like I would have to be pretty committed to go and do that research to find out where that is. Yeah. So that is a definite, definitely something that you need. Eliminate some of that friction. So I would definitely promote the business, of course, but I think again, in this scenario, I would also look at doing collaboration with the businesses in that area that are also trying to build this area up. Yes. Show yourselves connecting. Like, let's just say if there's a coffee shop and a bakery, do some sort of collaboration. You know, just do things that will bring attention to not just the business, but the area. Because let's be honest, when people are taking their time to go in person to a brick and mortar business, a lot of times it's an opportunity to create an experience. Like if you're obviously a brick and mortar, that it's like a needs-based, like I need this, so I gotta go there. But if not, like you gotta create an experience for them, and even if it's something they need, creating an experience will make it memorable and will keep them coming back.

SPEAKER_02 36:34

Exactly.

SPEAKER_01 36:35

Okay, so the last part, what format delivers it? That's why what we talked through video. I mean, video, we've said for a long time, video is king. Yes. Video is king, yep, and it's not going anywhere. Nope. So um, we gotta get a little more comfortable with the video. Well, no, there's nothing wrong with photos, with graphics, those are all needed and like great for certain things, they're great for education, great for really pre, you know, giving that clarity that is needed of this is who we are, this is what we do, these are the steps of if you wanna come in here, this is you know, and explain it like you're talking to a five-year-old.

SPEAKER_00 37:10

Yes, yes, and keep it short because attention spans.

SPEAKER_01 37:13

That's right. So that's how we would deliver that format. So if that was our brick and mortar business, we'd be posting photos for sure. Um, but also video, showing the experience, showing the environment, this new area. You want to come hang out down here, check us out. We got great neighbors. You can come here, you know, come visit us, and then you could go down the street to this business showing that whole process.

SPEAKER_00 37:37

So yeah, I mean, even if you have to grab somebody off the street and say, Can I use your back to photograph like your the video like you're coming into my store? I mean, do it. Yes. It only has to be like a five-second video to turn it into something.

SPEAKER_01 37:51

Yeah. I do love brick and mortars because it does feel like there's a lot of opportunity to just create urgency to get in the building. Yes. Like, don't throw away those milestones because that's an opportunity to get people in the building. One year, you're gonna be having a you're gonna be having a special event. Two years, you're gonna have a special event. You're never gonna outgrow those special events. Nope. Be in like maybe to you it's just a date on the calendar, but for marketing, it's an opportunity to get people in the building. Exactly. And get lots of content.

SPEAKER_00 38:22

Yes. A lot of b-roll.

SPEAKER_01 38:25

A lot of b-roll. Okay, so that is our um framework for making marketing decisions. Tracy, tell us again where people can find you online.

SPEAKER_00 38:34

Uh, Tracy with an I, Baker, T-R-A-C-I-B-A-K-E-R dot co. Not calm. Yes.co. Yes. And follow Instagram and and Tracy Baker Photographer and Facebook, Tracy Baker Photographer.

SPEAKER_01 38:48

So give her a follow. So that is it for this session of the back office, the strategy session. If this conversation gave you clarity, a new angle, or even just the reminder that you're not the only one navigating this, then it did its job. Take what's useful, apply it, move on it, and remember no one has it figured out, but we are building anyway. And if you found this valuable, share it with another operator who's building, and you can always hang out with me in between episodes on social media at Signify Marketing Social. I'm Delena Dillon, and I will meet you back here next time.