The Patterns Behind Successful Businesses

In this episode of The Back Office, Dalayna Dillon sits down with Heather Turner, business owner of Anthem Road Academy and a strategic leader in Oklahoma’s economic development efforts, to talk about the patterns she has seen after working alongside hundreds of business owners.

From leading the Jenks Chamber of Commerce to helping shape statewide initiatives through the Oklahoma Department of Commerce, Heather has had a front-row seat to both the successes and the struggles of local businesses. She’s watched companies grow, pivot, fail, and rebuild — and along the way, she’s learned what separates businesses that last from those that don’t.

This conversation explores the biggest mistakes business owners make, the priorities that matter most, and the resources many entrepreneurs overlook. It’s an honest look at leadership, resilience, and the discipline required to build something sustainable.

Show Notes

Guest: Heather Turner
Business: Anthem Road Academy

Heather Turner is a business owner, author, and economic development leader with deep experience supporting entrepreneurs and communities across Oklahoma.

She is the founder of Anthem Road Academy, a music academy with multiple locations serving students and families across the Tulsa and Oklahoma City areas. In addition to running her own business, Heather previously served as President of the Jenks Chamber of Commerce, where she worked closely with local business owners and community leaders to support growth and development.

Today, Heather serves in a strategic leadership role with the Oklahoma Department of Commerce, helping align two key divisions — CORE (Community Outreach and Revitalization Enterprise) and EDGE (Economic Development, Growth and Expansion) — created to strengthen economic development efforts across the state.

In This Episode, We Discuss

• The story behind Anthem Road Academy
 • The most common mistakes business owners make
 • What separates businesses that thrive from those that struggle
 • Leadership insights from working in economic development
 • What it takes to build a business that lasts

About Heather’s Book — Dream Traders

Dream Traders explores the journey of entrepreneurship through the lens of perseverance, vision, and leadership. Drawing from her own experiences and the stories of other business owners, Heather shares practical lessons about building a business while staying grounded in purpose.

About Anthem Road Academy

At Anthem Road Academy, we believe music is more than a hobby—it’s a journey that shapes character, builds confidence, and connects people. What started in 2011 by our founder, Heather Turner, as a passion to create a space where students could truly thrive has grown into a vibrant music community serving South Tulsa, Broken Arrow, Jenks, and Edmond/OKC. From the very beginning, our mission has been simple:

To be a student-focused, community-driven academy that helps every musician discover their voice and their potential.

Follow Anthem Road Academy on Facebook and Instagram.

About The Back Office

Hosted by Dalayna Dillon
Founder & Creative Director of Signify Marketing

The Back Office invites listeners into honest conversations about marketing, growth, leadership, and the real decisions shaping active businesses.

Facebook/Instagram: @signifymarketingsocial 

www.signifymarketing.social

Transcript

SPEAKER_01 0:06

Welcome to the back office. I'm Delena Dillon, the founder and creative director of Signify Marketing, and this is where you sit in on real strategy. Each episode, we step into an active business and have honest conversations about marketing, growth, leadership, and the decisions happening behind the scenes. So no one has it fully figured out, but we are building anyways. And today we're sitting down with Heather Turner, business owner, former president of Jinx Chamber of Commerce, and currently serving in a strategic leadership role with the Oklahoma Department of Commerce. And there's a lot more that we could add into that list. She's worked alongside hundreds of business owners, and she sees what it really takes to help businesses grow and what it what kind of brings about some struggle in different areas. And so today, hopefully, we will pick her brain a little bit about what it takes to build a business that lasts, because obviously that's the goal is to have a business that lasts. So we let's just start off with your business because you are a business owner and I know there's a lot of other things in that list. But tell us some of the story behind Anthem Road Academy, which is your um business that yeah, we know around here in Oklahoma. But tell us a little bit about Anthem.

SPEAKER_00 1:21

So I started out uh teaching public school music, and so my back my undergraduate degree is vocal performance and music education, and so I started out teaching public school for seven years, had my first kiddo, and was uh actually had my second kiddo, had two kids, a three-year-old and a four-year-old, and thought, you know what, I love what I do, but I just want to have a little bit more flexibility to to work around some of their school activities, to be it in the PTA and to do Trojans for Christ, and uh to be the mystery reader in their classrooms and all of these things. And so um I took a really bold step. I was teaching private lessons after school, and I met with all my students and said, Hey, if if I have to charge you more because I have to pay for somewhere to go do this, uh would you still stick with me? And and all of them said yes, and that's really how it started. I first started teaching in my home and going to their homes. I found out very quickly that was not the best uh use of everyone's time because you had travel time between lessons. You also most people's homes are not set up as a music or performance studio, and so you had a piano maybe in the front living room and by the loud kitchen and the TV was going, and maybe other siblings were coming in and out or whatever. So it just wasn't the most uh professional teaching environment, and so a lot of distractions. And then even in my own home where I did have a teaching uh teaching room, had a piano room. Remember, I had toddlers, yes, and they would come in and out and mom, you know, and whatever. And I realized pretty quickly I'm gonna need to have a space to do this. Uh, and if I really care about and take pride in the work and in being totally focused on the student. And so, really what started it out was was wanting to do something I love with people that I love um in a in a city that I love. And that's really how it all worked out. So we opened uh Anthem Road Academy. It was then called Abbey Road Academy, which is a whole story in and of itself, a good lesson for startups and businesses listening to the stuff. People need, yeah, people need to know the whole story. Yeah. So we call it Abbey Road. Actually, the place that we moved into here on Main Street Jinx 15 years ago was called Octopus Garden. If you know anything about the Beatles, that was one of their songs and an album. And uh, and there was a place called Abbey Road Catering. There was a lot of other Abbey Roads. However, we opened Abbey Road Academy, and and there were two reasons I used that name. One was my dad loved the Beatles, and I wanted it to be sort of a a really inclusive, fun name that people uh related to our business. I didn't want it to feel too stuffy because we teach all different styles and genres. That's something I wanted people to feel like the music lessons were tailored to them. And then the other reason was my voice teacher, when I was growing up, said, Heather, if you ever opened a studio, start it with an A because you'll be listed first in the yellow pages. So that was back in the day when there was yellow pages. Of course, that's not the case anymore, but still we do get sometimes if they list things alphabetically, you get listed first. And so uh, so anyway, that was just a marketing tip from my voice teacher. And uh so we had that name, and then six years into the business, when we had two locations at that point, we got a really scary 12-page letter from Universal Music Group, which was a cease and desist, because they own Abbey Road London, and they said we could dilute their brand all the way. Abbey Road London knew about our little Abbey Road Academy in Jinx America, and so I took a couple days to cry, and uh because I was like, oh no, this is so expensive. It's very it is expensive to have to change your name because of the signage on your building, uh, of course, all of your marketing materials, all your sponsorship, just everything that you built. And I really was so concerned, and I met then a mentor, uh, so this was 2017, and I met a mentor, uh, her name is Shannon Wilburn, and she's still a great friend of mine today, and still her story intertwines with mine quite a lot, which I I can share. And um, and she said, Heather, go to this conference. It was called the Unconference Conference for franchises and emerging brands. And emerging was any any business who had less than 500 locations, so a lot of businesses have less than 500 locations. She said, Go. And when I went to this conference and it opened my eyes because so many business owners were there, and so many of them talked about changing the name and how they went through that process. And I was like, Okay, they've all done this, or a lot of people have done this, I can do it too. And I also learned about having your international trademark. I thought I didn't realize I needed that, and and uh of course, now then I went back, I did a little form with my then staff and said it's we get to choose who we serve, who we are, what our values are, how we go about business, and now we get to choose a new name, and we got to keep our logo, which is the ARA, and we just changed the first name to Anthem. So instead of Abbey Road Academy, it's Anthem Radio. That's really cool.

SPEAKER_01 6:42

I mean, like that's nice that you were able to do that to keep that part.

SPEAKER_00 6:46

I know, because we had a local designer, Matt Williams, here in Jinx America, designed our logo. So we got that trademarked, and then we also Anthem means a spirited song that identifies a group or a cause. So I even think the name's better than our first name. I love it, I love what it means. And then Road, of course, learning is a journey, it's a lifelong journey that we join our our students on, and then Academy, a place of learning. So that's that's Abby Road, or Anthem Road Academy. And uh so we opened um in 2011 and then um grew quite a lot. So we had a good network of musicians that we we loved and trusted, and we brought on different musicians and and just really dove into the culture of being student focused, community driven from the start, really intentionally investing in our communities. And so I think when you give and you give and you give, then God honors that. And when you honor people that you're called to serve, and you honor the gift that God has given you at your calling, and then and then you honor Him, then I just think He blesses that. And and so over time we grew to our Bixby location as our second location, and then uh a few years past that we grew to our broken air location, and then now the space that we're sitting in right now is the Anthemer Little Black Box Theater, and so uh it's we've had lots of ups and downs in the middle, but we've had incredible people come on board, and I have so many really cool stories of what uh God has done through and in this place um because we said yes to opening a business.

SPEAKER_01 8:25

So well, so many questions we could talk just about Anthem for a long time because uh a lot of businesses think about scaling. Like you started as a you know, you were the solo, you were the sole income producer and the business owner, like I guess a solo peneur. Yeah, and so I think the idea to scale, everyone likes that idea, but there's so much that goes into that because it was your baby, and you have to be willing, if you really want to scale, yeah, you have to you have to be willing to let go of so much. You do so how like how was that transition to like release things so that you could grow and expand?

SPEAKER_00 9:09

Well, it's hard. My very first time to hire someone was actually Maggie. She was one of my students, and uh, and I was realizing I was, you know, doing everything from cleaning the toilets to signing up students to calling. I would go door to door with flyers and neighborhoods uh to going door to door to our our business neighbors and and doing all kinds of partnerships with them to really try to get our brand awareness out there. Uh, I was doing free DJing and music and karaoke and everywhere that I could, and and then teaching a lot. And of course, I had those toddlers and and my sweet husband at home. And so uh I just started to realize, okay, as this grows, I'm gonna be the lid on my own growth. I'll be the lid on our business's growth. And what that meant is that I would actually limit the growth and opportunity of the other teachers I'd brought on. And that's what that's what made me make the change. It actually was not so much of because I already had a lot of students, right? So it wasn't really about me. It was it was truly about if I try to do everything, I actually limit the growth of others, and that is the opposite of who I am as a person. And I feel like my purpose, God-given calling is to is to discover and develop the potential in others, and whether that's a student or a teacher or a leader in or a business owner or a community, and so whatever that form that takes, and so um, so that's really what was the catalyst is just like I'm not gonna be my whole purpose is to develop others, I'm not gonna be the lid on that for anyone else. And so we started out just with a part-time uh admin help, and she was one of my students, and she's started helping take calls, and I remember thinking I close like 99.9% of calls we get in. Yeah. I knew all the teachers really well, I can make the best match, you know, and I had to give that up and know that she might only close 80%, right? She may uh when I started getting when we scaled to multiple locations, this is a funny thing, but uh I used to do all the Christmas decorations and I had to be like, let's some we're gonna let other people do Christmas decorations. Oh my gosh, that was hard to do that. Yeah, decorating. I'm like, no, no, I want it to look a certain way, and and I had to remember guess what? It doesn't matter because I'm not doing it, and somebody else is getting to take pride in that. Um and so the hardest thing, of course, is when you build something, you put your blood, sweat, tears, sacrifice it into it. Uh, you know, you have to sort of uh steward it with open hands and remember that everything that we have God gave to us, it's not even ours anyway. And um, and so we're meant to steward and if he entrusts us with something that we should hold it with our hands open, and then he will, if we steward it well, he'll bring the right people in. And that doesn't mean they're gonna do everything like you would do it, uh, but it but what it does is it stretches you and them, and you get to learn from one another. And sometimes you learn from making big mistakes together or little mistakes together, and sometimes you learn when something goes well. And and so uh through that time of course then we went to having a you know an admin lead at each location, and then uh I went back to school uh because I felt like I needed a broader perspective, not just music and education, which is what I had, but uh as our business grew, I really needed a stronger business acumen. And uh so when I went back to get my MBA, it really forced me uh to e duplicate myself more and push more into leaders. And uh so then now we've got of course Destiny Dylan, who's our general manager, and she's doing an incredible job. And uh that has made way for someone else to grow in the business. Uh whereas if I stayed in even after I graduated, if I come back in and take that role, that limits her growth, and I'll never do that. So that's just not that's not who I'm called to be. And now she can grow, now you can grow, now other leaders within the organization can grow. And um, and that's I think what that's that's what you're called to if you want to scale and grow a business is to you can't control and grow. You get to get to choose.

SPEAKER_01 13:17

That's a very good point, because we can do one or the other. We can control or we can grow. That's right. Yeah. So you did you did scale, you did go to through three locations. At what point, like how what were the signs? What were the indicators that it's like we need another location? What were those?

SPEAKER_00 13:33

So we had before we scaled to just our second location, we actually had a long waiting list. We had built out our current building as far as we could build it out, and um and so we had a l a waiting list of people trying to get into lessons. So that was it was just demand. Yeah. And then people said, Well, why don't you just get one larger location and you know, instead of scale to two locations? And I just really it wasn't about what I wanted, it was about what was best for the client. So it's not always best for the client for you to have a lot of locations. Don't open a lot of locations for a cool factor because it's more expensive. Yeah, two insurances, two internet bills, two utility, you know. So true. It you actually grow your expenses in doing that to administrators, for example. But for our type of business, I know it's moms dropping off kids right after school. Yeah. And I know if you're doing it every week, if it's 45 minutes away for a 30-minute lesson, it's just exhausting. Yeah. And that's hard to keep up. So when I looked at our average student, we keep them about two and a half years. Some of them we keep for 10 years, but on average it's two and a half years. And I didn't want to see that diminish if people have to drive to us from too far away. Uh and so I polled I polled families and I said, How many of you are where are you coming from? Yeah. And that's when I did that poll, and I found so many of them were coming from Bixby. And so we just reached out to them and said, Hey, would you help us launch a Bixby location? Would you move to that location if we opened? And and of course we had a good group, a core group of people who said they would.

SPEAKER_01 15:07

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 15:07

And and that was an indicator that we can start. We started um in downtown Bixby. Bixby then had a renovation plan for their downtown, which was about a three-year plan. And so after we were in downtown Bixby for a couple of years, we actually moved on to a main street, um, like memorial, which is a high traffic. I will say that move wasn't easy either. It was doubling our expense. Oh no, it was very much more.

SPEAKER_01 15:31

Much more did families like it though?

SPEAKER_00 15:33

They loved it. So but but to make the decision as to go into a longer term lease with the ex more expensive build out to put the money into, you know, great the rent is is higher and all of that. That was a tough decision. But as soon as we moved there, it's next to all the things the moms like. So it's by it's closer to Target, Walmart, Canara, you know, ev uh tacos for life, all of these things right around it. And we quadrupled in size within about eight months. Yeah. So we grew uh a lot, and then we were getting requests for a broken arrow for a while. But for two years I looked at spaces for broken arrow, and uh it's so diverse in demographic. And so there's a lot of resources businesses can use to find out demographics. Your local library has some demographic tools, and your Department of Commerce uh has has tools that you can get demographic data, traffic pattern data. So I did a lot of studying on that, um, but I would say that is the broadest uh of the of our locations that that spread is is more broad and it's a little bit more challenging. And so don't just take for granted because you have done great in one area, that that will just translate to any other community. So I would say that's a lesson to for entrepreneurs and whether you're looking to scale, don't just take for granted, hey, I I was successful in X community, of course I'll be successful in other. It's not that you can't be, but you should really learn a lot about that community because just neighboring communities can have very different culturals, yes, cultures, very different spending habits. Uh they can just have different expectations for business and uh and w how far they're willing to travel, things like this. And so very important to do your due diligence.

SPEAKER_01 17:23

Yeah, and uh I think that it can be the tricky thing of doing the multi-location, like you said, you could do larger one place, but like the multi-location you do have to take in consideration each one's gonna still have a different personality in a way. Um, and you're you're running all of them. They all kind of need different touches.

SPEAKER_00 17:43

They do, they all need a different uh sort of vibe that matches and and relates to the people that you're serving. So again, you want to have consistency in your brand and and consistency in your values while at the same time having flexibility to serve the person in an effective way. And and so sometimes what business owners do is they think about efficiency. And efficiency is really important, but it's not as important as effectiveness. And people get those things confused a lot and they think, well, we're being efficient, everyone is exactly the same. We're being efficient, we're doing what's cheapest for the business. Well, sometimes what's uh cheapest for the business, what's easiest for the business, isn't what's most effective in serving uh your client. So you really have to think about okay, well, how can I best serve? And maybe I'm thinking about me, and that's why that's why we have our motto is student focused, community driven, because it's not heather focused, it's not um you know, what's best for Anthem Road focused, it's what's best for the student.

SPEAKER_01 18:44

Yeah. So you for a time served as president of the Jinx Chamber of Commerce, and of course that gave you a front row seat to a lot of different businesses, like all across the board. So from that, what kind of what what how was that eye-opening to you of just like what other businesses were experiencing that maybe the anthem wasn't?

SPEAKER_00 19:05

Yeah, well, what I would say is this one of the most eye-opening experiences of working at the city level with a whole lot of different businesses, and uh and then now at the state level with a whole lot more businesses in a lot of different communities, is that pretty much large corporations and small businesses, a lot of them face the same uh challenges. It's where am I getting my workforce? How am I developing and training and retaining my workforce? How am I keeping the cash flow flowing so that I can make sure everyone's getting paid and I'm still profiting enough to continue doing business? How am I interacting with and contributing to my community? So, really large companies who have, you know, you think you take a real estate agency, for example, who has a whole lot of locations around the state, they have some of the same challenges that a small business has as far as who's gonna run my day-to-day operations, how am I gonna attract, you know, my new team of realtors, for example. Um, how am I gonna retain those because there's a lot of competition. They have a lot of the same things. Then you look at a big company, look at a big aerospace company who employs thousands of people. Same challenge. Uh how where am I getting my workforce from? But how am I filling the gap between what they come to me with educationally and experientially versus what I actually need, how they execute them day to day. How am I building a culture uh when it when I have 10 people? Everyone has 10% of the culture. Think about that. When you have a small team, yeah, every team member you bring on, they influence the culture in a really big way. Yeah. When you have a really big company, sometimes you can get like a little bit relaxed on that, and you're like, oh, that's okay, we have a thousand people. But in a small team, maybe that they're in, a department they're in, you get one toxic person and it can kind of you know infect a whole team, which can really touch your culture. And so so large or small, it's the same questions, it's just maybe uh affecting a different percentage of the business. Uh, maybe you have multiple revenue streams instead of one. And so I would say uh, you know, that that's one thing, and and of course, in a civic role, you really learn in a small business you can make decisions very quickly. Right. But in a large organization, so right now I have um under me at the Department of Commerce about 125 employees and making decisions for a larger organization, and there are way larger organizations than that, sometimes it can be more slow moving because you're impacting so many more employees. And so, again, smaller, large, a lot of the same type of decisions, but the speed at which you can make those decisions and the intimacies you can have with your people, that is what probably changes.

SPEAKER_01 21:56

So those the small business owners who think that nobody Experiencing what they're experiencing is it's not right.

SPEAKER_00 22:03

Yeah. You don't, you don't, you don't get to get away from that from going to the larger business. It's the same. It's just in fact, it might just take longer to get to an answer.

SPEAKER_01 22:14

Yeah. Yes. That which is more frustrating.

SPEAKER_00 22:16

Yes.

SPEAKER_01 22:17

So based on all of your experience and what you have seen, yeah, what do you feel like are some of the key things that separate businesses that thrive and ones that struggle?

SPEAKER_00 22:27

I think humility is if you are a leader and you're trying to grow your business, you've got to be humble enough to listen to your customer instead of just have your own opinion about how you want to serve or what product you want to give. The market determines whether or not they value your product or service. And if you see that faltering, you've got to listen again to the market. You've got to be humble enough to take a minute and listen to the market. You have to be humble enough if you want to grow to listen to other people and bring in other people. Have your principles and your values that you stick to again, consistent on your values, right? Consistent on who you're called to be, but flexible on your method and uh and open to the perspective of the others so that you can evolve uh and grow as the business needs to and as the market demands it. So I'd say humility and then I'd say uh resilience and resourcefulness because you're gonna have ups and downs. In COVID, we we lost a hundred students in a week. I mean in a week.

SPEAKER_01 23:38

That's crazy. I didn't even think about that.

SPEAKER_00 23:40

And uh I remember just thinking, how am I gonna pay all these leases? You know, yeah. And and we paid all of our teachers first. I know there's a lot of pay yourself first um books out there, but I'd say when you're a business owner, a lot of times I always feel a really strong responsibility to everyone who's here. So we pay everyone first. Uh and sometimes and a lot of times for years, that would mean we're not taking pay, not because we couldn't take anything, but because we knew it was important to reinvest those dollars back into the business. And if we didn't do that, we definitely would not have four locations because that meant us putting dollars in the business to build or to market or say buy equipment instead of putting it in our pocket. And so I think making that decision, and that's also probably a little bit of humility, just a little bit of like, okay, maybe I'm not uh driving as fancy a car, but I know I'm investing in people, or maybe I'm not uh giving myself the as big a paycheck as I could as far as if I took all the revenue from my business, but I'm investing in people and I'm investing in the business, and if I do that, then I have stability over time, which during COVID, why we were okay is because we had put money into savings in the business, and so we were able to stay afloat during those hard times uh and not have to lay off any of our admin team or anybody, yeah. Uh so that so that when business started building back up, we were ready to go. And and um and that wasn't always easy, but that's that's one way if you're if you're asking the question, how do you sustain business over time, humility and and good stewardship, and and then um and then just a a possibility mindset, you know, seeing opportunities, being resourceful, and uh just sticking through it when it's when it's hard. Because uh I met with a big air I was just came from aerospace council and uh a high up uh fellow from a large aerospace company said to me, you know, my board asked me uh to justify this decision again to expand their business. And he said, uh I told him, I've already justified this to you. Are you are we in the long game or the short game? And his board said, Well, of course we're in the long game. He said, Okay, well then trust me, it's gonna have hills and valleys, and every business is gonna have hills and valleys and cycles. And if you have some good people you can trust, uh you you get your core and you say we're in this, and we're gonna see some things that don't always look easy, and then we're gonna see the return on that because we stuck with it. So not don't give up.

SPEAKER_01 26:26

Yes, yes. So, what are some of the biggest mistakes you've seen in businesses, both at the local and state level?

SPEAKER_00 26:34

Really basic, which is using all your money uh for yourself. So um, I think that's the number one really, yes. I think just as soon as people start making money, they start using it on their own personal um lifestyle, and then and they don't anticipate that once you're going up that you can have a down cycle.

SPEAKER_01 26:57

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 26:58

Again, the market determines a lot, and so you you bring your best every day, but no one predicted COVID. Right, right. And then when that happened, if we had if we had no resources because we had used them all, then we would have we would have had to shut down locations. And and so I think I see that. I think the other one is over financing, like financing to get fancy so that you look cool, yeah, but when you're not actually profiting yet. So I would say don't don't go and over-finance things so you can look cool. I I've seen a lot of businesses do that, and then they have a big debt that they have to pay after they've actually closed their business because um because they didn't weren't actually making any profit. And so I think being cognizant, it's uh debt doesn't have to be a bad thing, but don't over-leverage yourself and to look cool. Right. About appearance, purchase what you need, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 27:54

Well, so that really I mean, like I'm kind of surprised that you said that that's one of the most common. I mean, not that I don't think it happens, but it's you're saying it's like very common, and I think it is because people do they want to look a certain way um whenever well, and basically it shows you that you can't judge a business even by the outward appearance.

SPEAKER_00 28:16

No, and that's that goes back to humility. That's the difference. Because it's like we're all, of course, I want a really cool car, and of course, I want the state of the art everything, but is that because it serves the student better, or is that because it looks cool? Yeah, and I think I always had to ask that question uh, is this something that is is it because it it serves the student better, or is it because it serves your client better, or is it because it develops a better product depending on what type of business you have, or is it because you want to look cool? And looking cool is only great if you've actually got the finances to back it up, because otherwise it's like you've got something super fancy, and then the next week you're like, well, actually, we have to file bankruptcy. And so that happens on big big companies and small. And then some some of the other problem is just um, you know, that you see as far as innovative technologies or emerging industries. I would say it's just hard. And and we entrepreneurs, that's what makes us awesome, is that we we uh underestimate how hard it will be, and we overestimate how awesome and fast we can do things. And that's what's awesome. That's what's awesome about America. We love it, we love that. That's what makes the world go round, but it also, you know, there's a saying that says um in the short term you can't go as far and you won't make as much as you as you think. But in the long term, you'll underestimate how far you can go. Yeah. Um if you if you get a great team around you. And so um, so I would say, you know, take heart. We all I love the entrepreneurial risk-taking spirit. I love it, um, but but sometimes it's good to have someone you know around the table that can say, hey, ask that qualifying question. Are you doing this because it's the best thing to serve your product or your client? Or you know, and can you afford this? Uh and I know that's so basic, but that is that is probably the number one thing, and then just that, you know, um, you know, the other thing is just at this point in time, if we look at the state or the national, of course, we're looking at imports and exports, and we're looking at tariffs and some things like that. So we go on a whole trail about that. But but I think at the end of the day, it's can you afford what you're doing? Can you finance it in a and manage that in a in a smart way? Because again, financing is can be a friend in business, but but finance what's important, not just what what looks cool.

SPEAKER_01 30:47

So, two things based on everything you said already, yeah. I'd like you to speak to two different people. First of all, what would you say to the business owner who is the one who's like kind of doing the comparison thing and looking around and be like, everyone else is doing so well? What would you say to that person?

SPEAKER_00 31:08

So I would say comparison is the thief of joy, and we've all gotten in that trap, whether it's individuals or as businesses or organizations, communities, even school districts, you know, it's real easy to get in the comparison game. But uh, especially with AI, you cannot trust what you see.

SPEAKER_02 31:26

Oh, yeah, that's true.

SPEAKER_00 31:27

And so what I would say is if you're gonna compare, you just compare yourself from what you accomplished, who you invested in, how did you add value yesterday compared to today? And if you're adding value to someone else in an intentional way, that's a pretty great way to live. And so, whether that's through a product or service, if you're adding value to the employees you bring around you, that's a pretty great way to live. And uh, and I know it's just easier said than done not to compare, but truly, you know, I I've seen multiple businesses who went out and got big loans and it looked really cool, and they were closed within the first year. Uh as soon as they could get out of that lease, they were out of it, or maybe they still had to pay on that lease for a long time after. And so um, so I'd say just be cognizant of that, be cognizant of the negotiations and contracts that you go into, and certainly don't just do it for cool cool points. And and I know it's so it sounds like a high school, but it's just it's a true thing for all businesses. Um and and so it's what I see a lot on literally on a small and large scale. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 32:39

So okay, the other person I want you to talk to is the business owner because you were saying how like every business has hills and valleys. Yep. And so I want you to just speak a little bit. She's I I consider you a motivational speaker. So do a little motivational to the business owner that is in the valley or feels like they're at the end.

SPEAKER_00 33:01

Yes. Like well, and sometimes there does come an end to certain things. And what I'd say is an end to one chapter is the beginning and start to a new chapter. So if that's you and you're in a place where uh maybe you've you've been trying to keep this going because of what it looks like on the outside, because of pride, and that's not even saying pride like in a condemning way, but just in a like, no, I've worked so hard. And and people use a phrase, don't keep putting good money after bad. In other words, sometimes you make an investment, you try your hardest, and the season ends. Incredible, hugely successful successful companies have had to make these same decisions. And so when you think about comparison or you think about what will everyone think of me, they'll think I'm a failure. First, know that incredible people who have done incredible things, achieved incredible results, whether that's for as an individual or as an organization, they've also seen tides turn and have had to make adjustments. And that goes right back to the very first thing I said, which is humility. And that's so much easier said than done because sometimes a business does come to a time where they need to end. Um and the market tells us that. Or maybe our priorities tell us that. Maybe you're a single mom and uh you've had a business and now it's time you're really feeling called to spend time with those kids, or maybe you have to take care of a family member, or there could be a hundred different reasons why uh you have to have an end, and sometimes that's okay. And so I I want to give you permission to to shift into a new season because uh that's also sometimes a healthy choice for your family and for yourself or for your business. And then if you're in a va if you're in a hill, I mean a valley as well, but uh you know you can still serve and you've got people around you, and I would say if it's not time to to quit and many times it's not time to quit, you just have to keep pushing through and think of the long game because everyone who was ever successful embraced the the hard times and actually grew closer. And we went through a time in our business, uh it was in 2016, uh, when I had we had 20 uh teachers at the time, and we lost 10 teachers all within three months. Oh my goodness. And they were all like, and you would think, Oh, are you doing mean things? No, like it was all great things. They were moving on to be worship pastors in different cities, they were moving and getting married, they were having babies. It was just all the it was just there was like this life cycle that happened where now this whole group, and I remember crying and being like, Oh no, it's half our staff, you know. And within the next year, every single one of those people I still have great relationships with. They helped bring somebody else in to take their their spot and to take over their students. We grew from there and grew and grew and grew, and God continued to bless it. And so what I would say is sometimes you're gonna go through a down cycle, and that's part of life. Just think about your own life and your own personal family finances or your personal family issues or cycles of life or raising a child. You go through hills and valleys, that doesn't mean you give up on the child, and it's the same thing with the business. You don't you don't have to give up. Um, you just keep going and you build your faith as you take steps. And I journal, and I would say another little tidbit for people to do is to journal. Yeah. Because if you can journal, man, this is really hard. This is what I'm struggling with, and then you see God's faithfulness through it and how he brought you through that, when you're struggling the next time, and you then you can share, you know, the mountaintop story too. Like when we hit 500 students, when we hit, you know, uh our third location or our fourth location, um, then that reminds you, okay, he he's done it before, he'll do it again. Uh uh I've gotten through hard times before, I can get through hard times again. Uh we are more resilient than we think, we are more capable than we think. And so uh so I would say you're more capable than you think, and you can do more than you realize if you'll just uh believe in yourself and trust in God. Yeah. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 37:20

Absolutely. Well, there's so much more that we could pick your brain about. I mean, literally, so much going on, and um, but I do want to kind of switch back into your business owner role and ask you our final question. Yeah, that we like to always ask, and that is what do you have that you don't have fully figured out, but you're choosing to work through and build through it anyways?

SPEAKER_00 37:44

Yeah, well, really what I would say on that is the workforce pipeline development. Um, there were times when it was really easy to get a lot of workforce, and I'm I'm seeing this in every industry across the state and across the nation and internationally. Wow. Uh so that gives me hope, actually, and it makes me feel like I'm not alone. Yes, because I I literally see it in every industry. Uh, just a need for a strong workforce pipeline development plan. We have relationships with some of our local universities, for example, but it's been harder over the last couple of years. Uh, and maybe because during COVID some of these programs shut down, especially in the performance arena, we used to just have like a really strong pipeline coming through. And now it's it's it's it's harder to recruit than it was just a few years ago, you know. And so um, so what I would say is uh I I'm trusting God, I'm partnering with Destiny, with our team, um, to help and to and I and we're we're growing a little bit slower on on the workforce recruitment than we did in some seasons, but we're seeing that grow and we're having to be very intentional. So if you're a business owner, um pretty much in any industry, that's probably something you're facing too. And I would just say, you know, keep building those relationships, keep trying to find new ways to recruit, and then when they get in your doors, you know, really try to honor them and take care of them as best you can because um because that's that's really important. The competition is high and um it honor re retaining just as much as it is upon attracting.

SPEAKER_01 39:27

It definitely puts a different perspective on the importance of retention because yeah, they're not there there's people out there, but it's hard to get them.

SPEAKER_00 39:35

If you're a specialty, I mean, you know, I remember when I took on the state role and they were like, Well, how will you understand manufacturers needing, you know, certain type of engineer or whatever? And I said, Well, how easy do you think it is to find a violin instructor or a viola instructor or a flute instructor? They're very specialized, just like a certain type of engineer is, and they were like, Oh, I guess that's true. I love how you had the instructive. That's right. Like, uh, can you name ten violinists? Oh wait, I I actually cannot. Yeah, yeah. So neither could they. And so, you know, it's just like, no, those are these are specialized, and and as AI takes over a lot of the more repetitive type work and the work becomes more specialized, the workforce needs are also becoming more specialized. That's a good point. And so um, so we're facing the same challenges that so many others are facing. And so we're not in it alone. Yes. We're just gonna have to be intentional and trust God and continue to do the work that that adds value to others. Exactly.

SPEAKER_01 40:40

When you're adding value to others, it's always gonna, it's always gonna win. It's right. It's always gonna win. Well, um, to close out, tell tell everyone where they can find you slash anthemroad. I do want to say um if you if Heather like motivated you, inspired you, she does have a book. I know. Tell them where they can get the book and where they can find Anthem online.

SPEAKER_00 40:59

Yeah, so Anthemrotacademy.com, please come visit us. Uh, we have incredible teachers, incredible staff. We teach voice, piano, bass, drums, guitar, of course, violin, and a lot of other instruments, mandolin, even, banjo. So please reach out to us at Anthem Road Academy. We teach all student ages. So uh four through 104. Whatever works for you, we'd love to, we'd love to uh join you on your musical jour journey. And then um you can reach out to me at anthemroadacademy at gmail or uh heather turnertalks at gmail.com is my personal email. And then, of course, I'm at the State Department of Commerce at Heather.turner at okaycommerce.gov. And can they get um Dream Traders on Amazon? On Amazon and on Audible. And so the yep, there's the Audible version.

SPEAKER_01 41:51

I have to ask, are you reading it?

SPEAKER_00 41:53

I am. That's so much more fun. I love it when the author reads it. Yes, I love that. Yep, so I'm narrating it, and there's uh then the book, Dream Traders, it's all one word, and it's uh how to build the life you want in different seasons and stages of your life, how to make the trades that matter for success.

SPEAKER_01 42:12

It's yeah, you're gonna have to get it. You're gonna have to read it. So that's it for this session of the back office. If this conversation gave you clarity, a new angle, or even just a reminder that you're not the only one navigating this, then it did its job. Take what's useful, apply it, move on it, because no one has it fully figured out. But we are building anyway. And if you found this valuable, share it with another operator who's building, and you can always hang out with us in between sessions at Signify Marketing Social. I'm Delena Dillon, and we will meet you back here next time.