How to Stay Relevant in a Competitive Industry

What does it take to build a business in one of the most competitive creative industries?

In this episode of The Back Office, Dalayna Dillon sits down with Traci Baker, founder of Traci Baker Photography, to talk about the evolution of her business, the lessons she has learned along the way, and what it really takes to stay relevant in a fast-changing industry.

Traci shares how she went from being an Oklahoma public school teacher to building a thriving photography business serving families, seniors, and female entrepreneurs across multiple states. From the early days of picking up a camera for the first time to expanding her services into personal branding photography and social media coaching, Traci’s story is full of honest insight, growth, and adaptability.

This conversation explores what it looks like to build something that lasts, how to stand out in a crowded market, and the real challenges that come with serving clients well while continuing to evolve as a business owner.

No one has it fully figured out. But we’re building anyway.

Show Notes

Guest: Traci Baker
Business: Traci Baker Photography
 Location: Tulsa, Oklahoma

Traci Baker is a personal branding photographer, high school senior photographer, and social media coach/content creator based in Tulsa, Oklahoma. A former public school teacher, Traci picked up a camera and built a thriving photography business that now serves families, seniors, and entrepreneurs across Oklahoma and beyond.

Her work has evolved from portrait photography into a business centered on helping clients document meaningful seasons of life and helping female business owners stand out with branding photography and social media support.

In this episode, Traci shares the story behind her business, the challenges of working in a highly competitive industry, and the changes she has made over time to stay relevant and continue growing.

In This Episode, We Discuss

• How Traci first got into photography
 • What made her turn photography into a business
 • What it’s like working in a highly competitive industry
 • How her business has evolved over time
 • The biggest shifts she has made to stay relevant
 • The hardest part of her job
 • Mistakes photographers often make
 • Mistakes clients make before their sessions
 • What the future of photography may look like
 • Advice for someone just starting a photography business

About Traci Baker Photography

Traci Baker Photography helps families capture senior year memories, empowers female entrepreneurs through personal branding photography, and offers social media coaching and content support to help businesses grow with clarity and confidence.

Find Traci:

Facebook - www.facebook.com/tracibakerphotographer

Instagram - www.instagram.com/tracibakerphotographer

Website - www.tracibaker.co

About The Back Office

Hosted by Dalayna Dillon
Founder & Creative Director of Signify Marketing

The Back Office invites listeners into honest conversations about marketing, growth, leadership, and the real decisions shaping active businesses.

Facebook/Instagram: @signifymarketingsocial 

www.signifymarketing.social

Transcript

SPEAKER_02 0:06

Welcome to the back office. I'm Delena Dillon, the founder and creative director of Sigify Marketing, and this is where you get to sit in on real strategies. Each episode we step inside active businesses and have honest conversations about marketing, growth, leadership, and the decisions shaping what happens next. No one has it fully figured out, but we are building anyway. So today, I'm sitting down with Tracy Baker, gonna be your new best friend. She's so fun. She's the founder of Tracy Baker Photography and a personal branding and senior photographer who has built a thriving business in one of the most competitive creative industries. We're talking about what it takes to stay relevant, adapt to change, and continue growing in a field where trends, technology, and expectations are constantly evolving. I think you could agree with all of those.

SPEAKER_00 1:01

Oh yes, absolutely. Absolutely.

SPEAKER_02 1:03

So, Tracy, before we get into the business side of photography, let's start with your story. How did you first pick up a camera and when did you realize that it could actually become a business?

SPEAKER_01 1:13

Well, thank you for that introduction. I appreciate it. Um so I started in 2008, I think, was uh one of my friends on Facebook, Facebook is still good, um, did a um post about giving away her camera.

SPEAKER_00 1:30

Okay.

SPEAKER_01 1:31

And my mom wanted it until my mom realized, and this is when they first came out with the digital, um, where you had to look at the uh like through the back screen. Well, you had to look in the eye of this one instead of the back screen. And she didn't want to have to do that. So I just started playing with it. And I my oldest child was a senior, so I just took out and went playing with it. So I played with it for like two years. Um, do you remember the app Picnic?

unknown 2:00

Picnic.

SPEAKER_01 2:01

You probably don't, you probably weren't even born.

SPEAKER_02 2:03

I oh my word, I definitely was. I graduated high school in 2008.

SPEAKER_01 2:06

Okay, so you're the same age as my oldest.

SPEAKER_02 2:08

Yes.

SPEAKER_01 2:09

Okay, so it was Picnic, P-I-K-U-C-N-I-K, something like that. So it was like the first Instagram filters before Instagram was here. And I was the bomb. I was editing on it. Um, and I I bet I had just taken on new people, just for the fun of it. Um, one thing I will definitely recommend always charge. Don't do it free, just still do something for your time.

SPEAKER_02 2:39

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 2:39

And um I think I was a year, a year and a half in. I was terrified of Photoshop because I thought if you touch something, you were gonna totally run it. And on a trip to Texas with my husband, I get um an email that picnic is no longer. I had sessions booked.

SPEAKER_02 2:59

And that's what you were editing all these photos in.

SPEAKER_01 3:02

On on this, because that was when you first I had no idea. And I never would have done film because I'm too budget uh minded. I was like, I'd wasted too much time trying to learn that. Um, so I came home from that trip, locked myself in my office for I it was three days. I I came out to eat and do the other things, but I didn't even get dressed. I stayed in my nightgown, taught myself how to do Photoshop in that weekend, and continued on. I didn't have to cancel any um any sessions. So that was in like 2000, I bet that was about 2011 when that happened.

SPEAKER_02 3:43

Yeah. So what were you doing before you really got in? And and also what was the transition where you're like, whatever you're doing before, I'm gonna fully transition into photography.

SPEAKER_01 3:53

Um I started out as a um elementary teacher at Bixby. Oh yes. And uh I lasted 10 years in that. Thought I had my dream job. I got to be the first one of the first art teachers that Bixby had.

SPEAKER_02 4:07

That is so fun and fitting.

SPEAKER_01 4:09

I thought it was my dream job until you're stuck with every three days 550 students rotating through a regular classroom, not even an art classroom. I had to monitor the boys and girls' bathrooms. Um, we had to clean sinks. I didn't even have a sink or anything in there. My first year and only year as an art teacher was spent with wanted signs posted all around for art supplies. Um, had no budget. Uh it was all just begging. Yeah. And I it was the 550 students was just too crazy for me. And so I went crying. And I said, I don't know what I have to do, but I have got to get out of this. I don't, I this is not what I'm meant to do. And and I had made it 10 years as a teacher. That was my tenth year. I thought it was only my ninth, but it was my tenth, um, which in the teaching world that means I was vested.

SPEAKER_02 4:59

Yes.

SPEAKER_01 5:00

And that was my last time to teach. So uh my mom has three companies, and I went to her and I was like, okay, I've done the bare bones. I just need to make $900 a month to get us by. At this time, we have three kids, live on a farm, and she's like, Okay, I can do that. So I started working for her. I'm still working for her. It's been 20-something years. That was 2001 when I left.

SPEAKER_02 5:21

Oh, wow. Okay. So there was some time in between teaching and okay.

SPEAKER_01 5:25

Yeah. And it was just because that's when digital cameras started coming out, and then I just got to play. I I'm I'm an art person, creative person, soul, naturally. Uh self-taught on almost everything. Love techie stuff. Uh it when I was a teacher, I was the one that they came to to fix the laminator, to fix you. All probably don't remember this either. The little uh Xerox machine, the the purple duplicator that all the kids wanted to smell the papers. See, nobody knows. No, I honestly I don't say I didn't know that.

SPEAKER_02 5:57

I'm ancient. I don't know that one. I'll I'll give you that.

SPEAKER_01 6:00

Uh mimeograph, is that what it was called? I don't know. It was a carbon copy, and you had to put it in there and roll it, and it had ink on it, and first thing the kids did when you gave them the paper was to smell it. That's what's wrong with everybody now because they all smelled that and grew up with it.

SPEAKER_02 6:13

That is so funny. So, what did those early, those early, that early season look like? So you were kind of picking up maybe friends, and and how did it just kind of evolve and transition into a full-blown business?

SPEAKER_01 6:26

In 2010, my second daughter was um graduating and we went and just had some fun with hers. Now, at hers, was still on the picnic. Okay, still using the picnic because the pictures just popped up again. And I was like, Oh, you cringe cringe when you see your old work.

SPEAKER_02 6:42

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 6:43

Um, anyhow, I posted it and everybody started asking me, Oh my gosh, who's the photographer? And I was like, I don't know. I was too afraid to admit it, you know, to do it. And um that that was when people started messaging me when I I did said, okay, it was just we were just out playing, that's me doing this. And so I had several others um baking I I was charging like $25, I think, at the time for a session so I could learn and play. And then uh I was like, hey, you know what? I think this could turn into something. Yeah. And in 2014 was when I um took on my first official senior class. And I called it um that actually that one I don't know if I did at the time. Um, I think 15 might have been my first. No, 14. I don't know. I don't remember timelines. Um, the elite 12.

SPEAKER_00 7:38

Okay.

SPEAKER_01 7:38

Because undiagnosed ADHD, um, self-diagnosed, whatever. I self-diagnosed, I am self-diagnosed. Um I cannot do the same thing over and over. So, like I had set up a little studio in my home. Uh, I got so bored with that. That's what I love about this space, is it's always revolving. There's something else happening. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 8:03

So we're in Wampa right now. Yes. So this is she has a we work out of here. You'd photo photograph, that's the word. Photograph out of here all the time, but this place is so unique. So if you're in Tulsa.

SPEAKER_01 8:14

Yeah. West Tulsa.

SPEAKER_02 8:16

Yeah, West Tulsa.

SPEAKER_01 8:17

It's over here on Charles Page Boulevard.

SPEAKER_02 8:19

You need to check it out because the people, I mean, it's it's it's a vibe.

SPEAKER_01 8:22

It's a whole offices, offices, co-working spaces, people live here. There's laws upstairs. Um, very creative friendly.

SPEAKER_02 8:31

So it's very Tracy friendly because, like you said, like this space is this, and you can go over here and just Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 8:37

I was in one in Broken Arrow that was very small, um, very well thought out, but it was also not meant for a creative.

SPEAKER_02 8:48

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 8:49

Um and about the time I knew I was growing growing out of that one, I she was closing down because she decided she was going to homeschool her kids, the owner of it. At 28, she decided she did this in downtown Broken Air, which blew my mind. Um and this place is huge. Yes, I I think it's I think it's 90,000 square feet between all the stuff out there, too.

SPEAKER_02 9:13

You can get lost.

SPEAKER_01 9:14

And you can rent spots in here too. So it's a venue, they hold weddings and that kind of stuff out here.

SPEAKER_02 9:19

So that's a little plug. Little plug for Wampa.

SPEAKER_01 9:23

Oh, yeah, they they do do weddings.

SPEAKER_02 9:25

Do weddings too. So so you did focus in. At some point, you focus in on seniors as kind of your target. She can do whatever, but like I learned. Oh, I did all.

SPEAKER_01 9:37

I tried all of it. Yeah. Um, and and in that you learn what you didn't like.

SPEAKER_02 9:42

So you you just liked seniors. Is that what pulled you in that direction?

SPEAKER_01 9:46

Eventually, I got there. Yeah. When I after I tried Newborns, which was a not a no, but a heck no. Um, because I had a grandbaby. So naturally you go where what's in your life, especially in photography. If you've got kids, you start photographing kids. Um, I went uh the the moment that flipped the switch for me was I was so busy on focusing on the creativity side that I wasn't paying any attention to the business. Um, Christmas rolled around, and I hadn't done anything. Literally, I had a Charlie Brown Christmas tree, you know, with the one ornament and that rolls around every year. And that was my reminder that I let stuff just get out of hand, that I was letting my family go. And that was the whole idea of this is that you could still have your family time and all of that. Um, so I said that wasn't gonna do it again, and then after that, I took a workshop in Dallas and decided I wanted to work more on the business side of it because my accountant was like, you're you're paying people to take their pictures when it all boiled down to it. And I was like, okay, so I've I gotta figure this out. Um, I had uh like $900 in my business account, right? The workshop was $800. I drove myself down to Dallas, stayed in a hotel in downtown Dallas by myself, scared to death. Um, did this workshop, came back, and in the first, it wasn't even a month, I made $5,000 back.

SPEAKER_02 11:27

Oh my word.

SPEAKER_01 11:28

Yeah, because it changed my life with how how easy it was to get the clients that you want, to walk them through steps instead of I'm not um shoot and burn.

SPEAKER_02 11:41

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 11:42

Um which I don't even know what they call that now. I'm sure it's got a different name. Where they you take your picture and then you just get all the digitals. Right. And um I learned that a lot of my clients, once I rolled into the seniors, um, I started the this, see, this is why I'm ADHD because that's what I'm talking about. Was um I cannot take on 50 seniors because I would get bored with it. So I, you know, because I'm a baker, I was going to do baker's dozen seniors, and I thought that one extra is way too much for me. So I I'm gonna do seniors um all year long, the same 12 seniors, and I called it the elite 12. And I did six mini sessions, um, which could include cap and gown prom session. And at the time it was the town I was located in. So it was easy to set up those things like prom. Um, I just find a place. I always try to do someplace inside out of the weather because this is what happens in Oklahoma.

SPEAKER_02 12:43

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 12:44

Um, and that lasted about three or four years, and I just got out of it. I was like, okay, I'm just gonna go. I priced everything out, changed it, made it where now I still really only do about 12 seniors. Um, I mark them off, restrictive scheduling, so I don't um somebody couldn't call me today and go, hey, can you shoot this weekend at a package or something?

SPEAKER_02 13:08

Before we started recording. Um is a backup, is backup plan.

SPEAKER_01 13:13

But but when you're first starting out, you take on every one of those. Um I I do not like doing large family sessions. Uh it just stresses me out. So even with my branding sessions, I now I'm like, team of three is my max. I don't want to go any higher than that. But when you're first starting out, you'll try everything. You will.

SPEAKER_02 13:33

I mean, and you need to to know what you like and to know what you're good at.

SPEAKER_01 13:37

And it's what builds as you go. It's not like all of a sudden I knew how to do seniors.

SPEAKER_02 13:42

Yeah. Oh my goodness. You just like as you're talking, like all these tabs started opening in my head. I'm like, we need to talk about that. So you what you were talking about is like, I wanted to work more on the business. And I think some people hear that and they're like, but photography is your business. But like a photographer, you are the sole person in most situations. Like sometimes you have a team, but like you are the sole uh provider, but you also have to run the business. And running the business doesn't look like going out and taking photos necessarily. There's a whole behind-the-scenes stuff.

SPEAKER_01 14:15

That's like 20% maybe of your business.

SPEAKER_02 14:18

I think people need to hear that.

SPEAKER_01 14:19

Yes.

SPEAKER_02 14:20

Because if you're just doing the photo taking, you're not running the business.

SPEAKER_01 14:24

Yeah, and you're not pricing it according to that.

SPEAKER_02 14:27

Listen, that's probably, and I think anyone in the beginning are gonna is gonna make the pricing mistake. I know I did. Yeah. In in marketing, I was not pricing myself correctly, but it's fine because then whenever I realized it, I could make that change. But like you said, you talked with your accountant and they're like, um, you're gonna have to make some changes.

SPEAKER_01 14:45

I was literally paying people to take their pictures, and I thought I was making money.

SPEAKER_02 14:50

Well, because I got a check. Yeah. And I think that too for something like what we both of us do, like you do you do marketing as well, you do social media marketing as well as photography, mostly photography, but um same thing with me, people don't understand the price behind doing the work. Yeah, they don't know it.

SPEAKER_01 15:10

Yeah, you have to educate.

SPEAKER_02 15:12

And so price, I I'm sure you've had so many questions on pricing, but um I always thought.

SPEAKER_01 15:19

Oh, yeah, I my my reputation in town was uh at one point a kid standing beside me at the football field for senior sunrise um pops off to one of my seniors, and it's like, go go get your ten thousand dollar pictures. That's what they really thought that I was charging. That's what they thought at the time. I was like, Oh yeah, I wish. Yeah. I don't let me do it like two, maybe.

SPEAKER_02 15:40

Yeah, well, and I always tell people, don't apologize for your pricing because the customer doesn't, and they they're not supposed to know. They're the customer, they don't have to know all the behind the scenes of like, actually, I'm not I might be charging you, let's just say 10,000. You're not, but I might be charging you 10,000, but I don't take home 10,000. So what talk about the pricing? And was that something you had to kind of struggle through of like not apologizing for your price tag?

SPEAKER_01 16:05

Oh, yeah, yeah, uh, yes, definitely. Good question. Um, mine after talking to the the accountant, I just sent out to people, hey, this is what my accountant said. My prices are going up. I love you, and I understand if you need to go somewhere else. I really only lost like two people.

SPEAKER_02 16:24

Yeah, because they are loving it.

SPEAKER_01 16:28

The value, yeah. You have to put the value in it. And I started at once the shoot and burn really started taking off, and you hear it in every group. I know in your business, uh any of them, it's about um there's a there's one on every corner and the market's so saturated. Well, I started going from the perspective, I just found what my strength was, and A, I started, I was an empty nester, and I didn't have the kid at home that I had to keep messing with. And uh, so I used that and I used that as far as I could get it of I have time for this. Yeah, I started educating on once the shoot's over, here's what I do. I mark it on my calendar. I don't take on 10, yeah, 10 sessions this weekend because you don't have 10 days to work on it, you know. So when I do your session, I have a date already set for the editing and the follow-up after it. Um I I gradually, but one year, actually it was probably I don't know, one year I finally um did another business workshop and came up with like three packages. And you're supposed to, you know, according to marketing, you have a a a dream package, a middle package, and then your basic package. Right. You know, when my entire 12 senior parents picked the dream package, I was like, oh, I screwed up. I screwed up mad on that one. We can say uh way over extended yourself. Um it wasn't so I gave way too many products with it, but it also there wasn't that pain point um that somebody's going to really stretch out and get it. Um that should have probably been the price of it, should have been my metal package. Gotcha, is what I meant on that. So um, and they they now have come back even later and they're like, yeah, that was that was a lot of product. I do product, yeah. I don't just give the digitals. So um they can have wall galleries, they can have um albums, announcements, custom announcements. Um, it's just I it's the experience in itself, what all's involved in it, not just show up, meet me. I want to know you before the session so that and that I have a consultation so that we can get to know each other so that it's not a dry run the first time you show up. And you're taking photos. Yeah, it's like, who are you? What? What's this? Yeah, there's 10 people out here, which one are you?

SPEAKER_02 19:00

Well, I I think that also something you said that people need to hear is that you have to invest back into yourself.

SPEAKER_00 19:07

Yes. Oh, for sure.

SPEAKER_02 19:08

Like become the best you can be. Yes. And you no matter what stage you are in in business, there's that you should still be educating yourself, being around other voices to perfect your craft.

SPEAKER_00 19:21

Yes.

SPEAKER_02 19:21

It's so important. And you have perfected your craft. I have to say, I want you to talk a little bit because you truly don't just take photos, especially like with the seniors. Like you like, you use the word experience. You create an experience for seniors that is pretty incredible and I think really unique. Like whenever you say what set you apart from other photographers, this is definitely one of the things I would say sets you apart is the experience that you provide for a senior. So, how did how did you come up with that? Where did that come from?

SPEAKER_01 19:52

The mom. The mom.

SPEAKER_02 19:53

Being the mom? I being a mom.

SPEAKER_01 19:55

The experience is for the mom.

SPEAKER_02 19:58

Yes, yes.

SPEAKER_01 19:58

20 years from now, the kid will look back and and see it. But the mom, I know what the mom's going through. Yeah, their dynamics are about to change. Um, whether it be the first child, the last child, the middle child, the only child, I am here the whole time for the mom.

SPEAKER_02 20:16

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 20:16

Um, when we're shooting, I don't care if it's prom pictures or whatever, mom's going to be in the pictures. If dad's there, he is. Yeah. Um, he'll be in it too. But um, I I want mom to have this moment. If there's siblings there, it's about, especially like the middle child who always just gets lumped in there. Um, they get their own picture with mom uh every session, no matter what. And the moms always act shocked, like, oh, I wasn't ready for this. And I was like, I just turn it black and white, it's okay. It's all good. You're still gonna be in a picture because 20 years from now, nobody's gonna care. Right. You're just gonna be glad you have the photo. Yeah, so that and that led into the branding because a lot of the moms um are entrepreneurs and have little side businesses and and that. So that's my main thing is is women. I you're we're I'm tired of seeing you look through your phone and all you see is your family and no pictures of you. And of course, dad's not taking any pictures of you. And if he is, it's when you have no makeup and no bra. And you know, so that's all the pictures I had.

SPEAKER_02 21:20

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 21:20

My husband, the only time he'd pick up the camera was Christmas morning in my jammies with no bra and my hair going every which direction. And um, I wouldn't have any pictures if it weren't for my mom. My mom's the one that took the pictures for us and then had them printed out and get get just you know, Walmart things. I wouldn't have those. Yeah. And so I really harass guys now. You know, your your spouse should be taking pictures. Yes, even my own husband, he gets it because you know he's been trained. The two oldest ones, sir. Like, why? Why are you still posting my picture on my birthday from 17 years ago? Yeah, because he doesn't have any new ones, yeah. So he's

SPEAKER_02 22:00

Yeah, he's learning. He's growing. So obviously, photography is a very competitive business. I feel like it has, and maybe you're in the business, so you could speak to this more than I could. I feel like it has slowed down a little bit because I feel like for a portion of time, almost not everyone I knew, but there were so many people I knew that were just kind of doing what you're doing. Exaggerated in the beginning. Like what you were doing in the beginning of like just trying it and fiddling in it, which I don't listen, great. No judgment here. But being in such a competitive uh industry, how how has that been for you? Um trying that not just doing the playing around, but actually forming it into a legitimate business that you're taking seriously?

SPEAKER_01 22:45

Because I didn't start it as a um frosting on a cupcake kind of thing. Um, so many make the mistake of starting a side business like that because they have a husband and he makes the main income, and so they're just getting some gravy income.

SPEAKER_02 23:05

Some spending money.

SPEAKER_01 23:06

Yes. Yeah. And so even when I coach somebody on this, I'm like, you start out with your pricing like this is your only job. Yeah. Because if you start out cheap, you're gonna get all the cheap, cheap people that are just gonna leave you when you have to raise your prices. So start out. I started out at, I think I started out at 50 and not 25. And I would give the little CD disc, you know, with the stuff on it. Um, I actually even I remember giving somebody all raw images, which you probably know what raw images are, but nobody else can do anything with raw images unless you know how to use the editing software.

SPEAKER_00 23:41

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 23:41

But um, I still valued my time. And then that Christmas, I didn't, that's when I said, okay, things are changing. I'm I'm I'm going to make a legitimate, sustainable business. Right. Sustainable. It was not, um, it's had its ebbs and flows. This this past year has been slow for everyone, whether it be photography or not. I mean, all the groups are talking about this. It's one of their worst years. I have built mine enough that I can have one client a month and I'm okay.

SPEAKER_02 24:11

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 24:12

Um, I have a dream client coming in from um Cincinnati.

SPEAKER_02 24:16

Awesome.

SPEAKER_01 24:17

In a couple of weeks. And we're we rented a big Airbnb by Utica Square, and her whole thing deals around the home. So we're going to shoot in this one. So that was like, and that's awesome. That I I just fell in love with. Um, that's another thing. You've got to have systems. If you don't, you can't just always fly by the seat of your pants. You you need to have a business day to where you only work on your business. Um, it's not a joke whenever they talk about marketing Monday and um Tax Tuesday or you know, whatever, is is to find those systems. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 24:55

So what do you feel like with all of these years watching not just your own business but other photography businesses? What do you think is the difference between those who last and those who just kind of flitter away?

SPEAKER_01 25:06

Um, most likely because it's it's a it's a mom with small children. And they realize, yeah, it it is a lot more work than what it looks like. Yeah. So um there's the whole gamut. It's on on deciding if you want to be flaky or if you just want uh the ones that pop up every six months, like, hey, I'm having a mini session. Right. It's like and that's all so that's all they do. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 25:34

So they just will do a mini session and then you won't hear it from them again till the next fall.

SPEAKER_01 25:38

And it's usually when they need extra money. Yeah. Um, because a mini session can be viable when you're when you're doing photography. Yeah. You could make, you know, I could make two to three thousand dollars in a day doing it and then not have to work again for the rest of the month. But then again, you're losing the people that um you all of a sudden you pop up. Every time you pop up, you're wanting something.

SPEAKER_02 26:02

Yeah. What is the hardest part of your job that people don't see?

SPEAKER_01 26:06

The editing. I and you know, anymore, like with Lightroom and that stuff, you can make it easy. Um, it can be done quickly, but I see too many details that I need to worry about, the way the shadow hits on you and that kind of stuff. But it's on my desktop, and I can't just carry a laptop around, so I have to sit in my boring little room. Um, which I've made it look good to and I have good music in there, but uh that's I don't like that part.

SPEAKER_02 26:34

Good music is required.

SPEAKER_01 26:35

Yes.

SPEAKER_02 26:36

So music or do you put on like a show?

SPEAKER_01 26:39

I can't, I I can't on a show. I I I play oldies music, and I'm talking about Louis Armstrong and um Etta, whatever Fitzgerald. Ella, Edda? Ella, yeah. Ella, yeah, yeah, those that type music.

SPEAKER_02 26:52

Oh, I love that. Okay, so you kind of mentioned something earlier that I want to just outright ask. Do you provide coaching for photographers? Is that something you do or just when asked?

SPEAKER_01 27:04

Um, I I can.

SPEAKER_02 27:06

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 27:06

Uh not for the photography side of it. The reason um the business side, yes. The photography side because everybody has their own little niche that they want to mess with. Um, I I just I learned the hard way that you've got to focus on the business side. If you want to make this a sustainable um career that you can survive without your husband's pay, you've got to learn the business side of it.

SPEAKER_02 27:33

So for anyone who's who needs that repeated, if you want to win in the photography business, you have to have solid business systems, procedures, amen. All those things.

SPEAKER_01 27:46

Yes.

SPEAKER_02 27:47

Okay, so I asked that because you said mentioned something about that about that. And I'm like, that would totally fit if someone was needing some of that coaching that you're someone they should contact. I mean, I think.

SPEAKER_01 27:58

Yeah, oh, well, of course. TracyBaker.co.

SPEAKER_02 28:03

Tracy with an eye. Yes, that is a very important distinction. But because of that, I I do feel like you have that coaching hat that you easily wear. What are some of the biggest mistakes you've seen photographers make?

SPEAKER_01 28:16

Always undercharging and um not getting back with people. I the amount of people that contact me and say, You're the first person that's replied back to me.

SPEAKER_02 28:27

Wow.

SPEAKER_01 28:28

Just blows my mind. Yeah. Just they're just letting people like customers basically walk in their business and leave without even and not not paying attention to your direct messaging on social media because that's how people are contacting you now. Uh majority of my business is through my social media.

SPEAKER_02 28:45

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 28:45

Um, I got a website just because I felt like we needed one. Um, went through the whole growing my business kind of thing with it, but laud it. Um the DMs are where it's at. It really, truly is.

SPEAKER_02 28:58

Yeah. And I think not too, I know like listen, people can set their boundaries all they want. They can't. They're allowed to do that. But also, if you have like an inquiry form on your website, I know I've I've seen people, like if someone does DM then they're like, okay, but you need to go fill out this form.

SPEAKER_01 29:14

Yeah, least friction possible.

SPEAKER_02 29:17

This, yes, thank you for saying that.

SPEAKER_01 29:19

That is so true. Um, matter of fact, like we were messaging through DM. Yeah. And I came back and said, girl, you gotta text me. We took the text. Well, because we had contacted enough through it, right? And I'm like, make sure uh Facebook Messenger is wonky. Like people have contacted me and it didn't show up at all. Yeah. Um, and then they email me and I was like, oh my gosh. And then all of a sudden it pops up in my Facebook. I was like, wait a minute.

SPEAKER_02 29:46

Well, and I will say, um, to check your DMs, but also check your um what it like requests, because if some sometimes they get put in there like they're written.

SPEAKER_00 29:55

Not on your business page though.

SPEAKER_02 29:57

I yeah, yeah. Not on if you're doing it through what? What are you you're saying through meta. Yes, if you're doing it through meta, it won't. But like if you're just going in through Instagram, yeah, always check your request because I feel like people might be surprised. What's what could be?

SPEAKER_01 30:11

Well, I do on Instagram, Instagram on that one. Yes, definitely.

SPEAKER_02 30:15

Yeah, so what are so you said what mistakes photographers make. Now we're gonna get personal. What are some of the biggest mistakes clients make when going to a photo session or a branding session or whatever it may be?

SPEAKER_01 30:29

We don't wear all white and denim jeans.

SPEAKER_02 30:32

Oh no, now we're getting personal. Now we're getting personal.

SPEAKER_01 30:36

You really do have to learn um over the years that what what photographs and what doesn't.

SPEAKER_00 30:43

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 30:43

Um, tiny prints, those, and I know you've seen this, the little wave marks from pinstripes that can show up in the pictures. It's called moray or something like that. I don't even know the technical term for it.

SPEAKER_00 30:55

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 30:55

Um knowing your skin tone and what colors to wear. Um over the years, I have checked, seen things, regret things, everything I do in my business because I screwed up somewhere and had to redo something. Yeah. Um it it that that's one of the things is not consulting about um attire that you're going to wear. And the other thing is wear clothes if it's a family session that match your home.

SPEAKER_02 31:26

Oh, that's a good point.

SPEAKER_01 31:28

Because you're more likely to put them on the wall because it goes with the aesthetics of your home. So you don't want to wear neon colors and then your home is in all the lovely farm gray and white.

SPEAKER_02 31:38

That is it, I mean, that's something people wouldn't think of. But it's that's a really good piece of advice. So I I don't think that you probably do now because you have tightened things up and you do so much education around your business. But in the beginning, and maybe for other photographers, have you ever dealt with, or what do you feel like are some of the reasons for um wrong expectations that clients come into a session with?

SPEAKER_01 32:09

That anything can be photoshopped.

SPEAKER_02 32:12

That's that's have you had someone be like taking a picture, be like, oh, you can just photoshop them.

SPEAKER_01 32:18

Almost every session, somebody will say that. I'm like, I have my skinny lens on, it's okay. Um mine, I need to explain this. What I call a proof is what a lot of photographers give as their final images. They say they're fully edited. So you will get the proofs, which in mine you will get them printed as well, unless it's a branding session because you don't want all those pictures. Yeah. Um, but then when you order one for the wall, that's where the photoshopping comes in. Um, that's where your little tuby roll muffin top, which nobody else is noticing but you.

SPEAKER_02 32:56

Nobody else is noticing it.

SPEAKER_01 32:58

And I I tell all moms, it's like we don't stare in the mirror all day. So instantly when we see a picture of ourselves, we go straight for our flaws.

SPEAKER_02 33:06

Yes.

SPEAKER_01 33:06

But everybody else, that crooked tooth, everyone else sees it as normal. Yeah. And you're just seeing the crooked tooth that you need to get fixed, which it can be fixed. But I try, even when you have a a child that has um a boo-boo, I try to leave it in there because 20 years from now, when you're looking at that picture, oh my god, this is where he fell down by the fireplace and broke his elbow or whatever.

SPEAKER_02 33:31

Yeah, so is life. That was life back then.

SPEAKER_01 33:34

My motto is 20 years from now, how are you going to look at this picture?

SPEAKER_02 33:38

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 33:38

Um, try to use heirlooms in it if you've got grandma's jewelry, um, the quilt, grandpa's hat, and you can incorporate it into a session. 20 years from now, that's what you're gonna remember.

SPEAKER_02 33:49

Yes, yes. Okay, so switching a little bit back to the photography side of it, what do you think the future of photography industry looks like right now?

SPEAKER_01 34:00

Shall we talk about AI?

SPEAKER_02 34:02

Shall we? Shall we?

SPEAKER_01 34:04

That's what everyone's wondering about. Are you sick of seeing the AI stuff? I I think the way that I've built my business on the experience, yeah, it we're moving back to that. People want to get to you're you are so sick of seeing those same AI ads that somebody's done the cartoon picture of themselves. Does it have a spot? Yeah, it has a spot, but when you are making it your business, people are gonna tire of it. And they want to get back to the human side. Um, just like what was the the M-dash, where people could tell that you were you put it in um chat and had it rephrase it and they kept putting the dash on there. Yeah. So it it's obvious when it's yours with the M-dash, you know, so then they start changing it around. But um, so you see, you see that kind.

SPEAKER_02 34:53

I mean, AI is gonna is here to stay, but I agree. I have to agree. I think across the board people are getting back to the human experience.

SPEAKER_00 34:59

Yes, oh, for sure.

SPEAKER_02 35:01

And that means for photographers, what what that's what they should be paying attention to right now, you think?

SPEAKER_01 35:06

Oh, for yes, yeah, what experience? Definitely answer your DMs, yes, answer your email. So when I started this, I lived, I still live rural, and we had a really bad internet. And for just seeing your pictures, for me uploading like a hundred pictures to get their proofs printed was seven and eight hours.

SPEAKER_02 35:28

Oh my word.

SPEAKER_01 35:28

I would have to leave it running overnight. Yeah, and then um finally, here's a plug for Lake Region Electric Co-op. They spent millions around 2020 to start coming out and bringing fiber out there. Um, so when it windstream did a mild upgrade and I was doing it in four to five hours. So that was another reason why it's like that's why I'm charging more because it's still taking me this long. Yeah. Um, so it was four to five hours to upload a hundred images. And I would my computer was constant wear and tear because it had to keep going. Right. Then um fiber came and I sat down and I grabbed one of my senior files, uploaded it 12 minutes. Oh my word, that's nuts. I cried. I literally was crying. I was I was so emotional over it. It took me a good three weeks to get out of that habit of that system because I would start them uploading, then I would go do laundry. Yeah, or I'd go do something else. Yeah. And it's like, oh no, they're probably already uploaded. So I I was able to speed up my systems with it. But that's amazing. Um, definitely appreciate technology in that part.

SPEAKER_02 36:36

Yes. Okay, so what is your piece of what is a piece of advice for someone starting out in the photography business in 2026?

SPEAKER_01 36:46

Charge your worth. You don't have to um be the cheapest. There's always going to be somebody cheaper than you. There's always going to be somebody more expensive than you. There's always going to be somebody who is better than you but charges less than you. And that that affects your mentality. Yeah. But um charge. Your time is valuable. Yeah. Charge.

SPEAKER_02 37:11

Yeah. Because the time that again, the pe the time that people don't see is when you are the one in front of that computer screen editing, doing the books, doing all of the things, doing the business side of things. Those are the things people don't see.

SPEAKER_01 37:24

And incorporate if you have a website, that costs you. Yeah. If you have software, um Photoshop costs you. Yes. And matter of fact, mine's like $80 a month now. It went up.

SPEAKER_02 37:35

Oh my word.

SPEAKER_01 37:37

Your your scheduling, all of that cost. My email one, that flow desk, is like $900 a year.

SPEAKER_02 37:45

That is crazy.

SPEAKER_01 37:46

And you've got to factor in that. How many clients do you need to pay that off?

SPEAKER_02 37:50

Yes. Yeah. These are the things that you learn with as many years of experience as you have. Yes. So what are you most proud of in this stage of your business?

unknown 38:00

Most proud.

SPEAKER_01 38:02

That most of my clients are now friends. Oh. I love that. Yeah. I they'll send me random stuff out of nowhere. Or, you know, and you're just like, uh, that's only because I took their pictures. Yeah. And that you get to go from milestones with them. Um, started out when they were three years old, next thing you know, you're taking their senior pictures.

SPEAKER_02 38:23

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 38:23

Um, and and they want that consistency of it.

SPEAKER_02 38:27

Right. Um, what keeps you motivated after all these years?

SPEAKER_01 38:32

Because of my ADHD, because photography, you can change it all the time. Yeah. Um, I shot a few weddings and it was like, nope, nope. I love shooting the weddings. I hated the editing part. Yes. Um, and that fear of what if I miss the kiss?

SPEAKER_02 38:49

The one, the one, what how many seconds do you think that is? Like five seconds that you cannot miss.

SPEAKER_01 38:55

Yeah. So I I did a wedding at an Airbnb um old home, Victorian type home. And I told them, I said, I don't have any skill in this whatsoever. And they're like, No, we really want you. I was like, okay. So I'm like, got my on-camera flash, they're doing it out in the backyard. Um, it's a mom with a daughter, and it's so it's gonna be the stepdad. There's this moment where he's gonna give her a little promise ring to be the dad that she needs. Um, my battery died. No, yeah, and I had to go up to the second floor from the backyard, run up there, get I had no idea that those splashes, because I would I didn't have a charge rechargeable one. Yeah, yeah. I had um like six double-A batteries in there. So you're popping batteries. Oh yeah, totally missed the whole thing. Missed the whole thing. Um, came back. I was like, I I didn't even know what to say to you. I'm so sorry. Um, they were fine, which the marriage didn't last later, but oh man.

SPEAKER_02 39:55

That's a that's another podcast.

SPEAKER_01 39:57

And that was the other thing is um the majority nothing kills you more than all the work that you put into a session and the the they get a divorce, or and one guy said to me, Oh, that was the first thing I did was burn those pictures.

SPEAKER_02 40:13

I can't, I can't. Well, that needs to be a podcast. So if whoever wants to start this, the chronicles of the wedding photographer to just talk about the horrors of all of those things. Yes, and I mean be and beyond. I'm sure there's a gazillion wedding stories from wedding photographers. So if someone needs a podcast idea, there you go.

SPEAKER_01 40:32

Yeah, yeah. No, I I no weddings for me. I did maybe three or four.

SPEAKER_02 40:37

And that was enough.

SPEAKER_01 40:38

Yeah. And the seniors, I think the reason why I lean toward the seat, because you can get them to do almost anything.

SPEAKER_02 40:44

They're like, all right, I'll try it.

SPEAKER_01 40:45

Um, I I I make the parents, they're with me. Um so if I'm like, climb up on that narrow wall right there with that traffic right beside you. Mom, is that okay?

SPEAKER_02 40:54

Is that alright?

SPEAKER_01 40:55

I do have insurance, and if you're a photographer, you by golly better have insurance.

SPEAKER_02 40:58

See, another thing we didn't even talk about. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 41:01

Oh, yeah, for sure.

SPEAKER_02 41:02

Man. Okay, so before we close, I always ask this question: what is one thing you don't have fully figured out yet, but you're choosing to build through anyway? Something you don't have figured out.

SPEAKER_01 41:16

I have none of it figured out.

SPEAKER_02 41:19

I really don't.

SPEAKER_01 41:20

I I I really don't. It I have the attitude of I'll figure it out as I go, which is what yours is. Yeah, do it scared.

SPEAKER_02 41:28

Yeah. Um well that's what you said about that first conference you went to. You were scared, you just showed up by yourself.

SPEAKER_01 41:33

Do it scared. Yeah. And that's like what this whole year of me doing. Like, I'm doing this. Like I'm driving up here going, I don't even know what we're going to talk about.

SPEAKER_02 41:43

Yeah, so this is your first podcast, right?

SPEAKER_01 41:45

Very first podcast.

SPEAKER_02 41:46

Maybe you did it, hopefully, not too scared.

SPEAKER_01 41:49

I didn't know. No. And we've had all kinds of technical issues, so it works out fine.

SPEAKER_02 41:53

It's all good.

SPEAKER_01 41:54

It's the epitome of doing it.

SPEAKER_02 41:56

Yes. Just winging it. We're so we're all just waiting. I think honestly, that attitude brings better success when you're willing to just figure it out.

SPEAKER_01 42:04

So um, my year of woo-woo, the way Kathy Hellers, who I listened to, uh, the way that she phrases it, when something happens like this, it's like, I'm going to see where this adventure takes me. Yeah. Instead of being upset about it, it's like, oh my god, I'm dwelling on that. It's like, let's see where this adventure is going. That's good. And that's how, like, when I got on the lowdown extra, because uh, as I'm driving over to my parents' house to help with the hacker on their computer, I'm like, I'm going to see where this adventure takes me. And look where it took me.

SPEAKER_02 42:36

So that's another plug. If if when it I don't know when that's gonna come out. The lowdown, is it the lowdown or low down?

SPEAKER_01 42:41

It's the lowdown.

SPEAKER_02 42:42

The lowdown.

SPEAKER_01 42:43

And it's on Hulu and FX.

SPEAKER_02 42:45

Is it, but it's not out yet?

SPEAKER_01 42:46

Uh season one's already out. Okay. And it's filmed around Tulsa and it's based on a guy in Tulsa.

SPEAKER_02 42:52

Okay.

SPEAKER_01 42:52

Um, it it's not one for little kids to watch, but uh, you'll see drive down um what is that, Third Street, Sixth Street, where um Holy Holy Mole used to be and the Bramble. Go down that, you'll see the whole set set up there where the sweet Emily's that's all fake. Oh, okay. But you can look in the windows and it looks like a die. It's so cool.

SPEAKER_02 43:14

So you'll potentially as you'll be an extra in season two.

SPEAKER_01 43:18

Yes, I got to be I got to be a journalist in that one. Which it I'm I will never look at film the same way. It just blows my mind for a a you know, 20-second shot took us three and a half hours. I did not start my part until like 10 o'clock at night, and I had to be there at four o'clock.

SPEAKER_02 43:37

Well, well, I mean, I guess it's an opportunity to see the different side being behind the camera in a different way.

SPEAKER_00 43:43

Yes.

SPEAKER_02 43:44

So full cool. So we looking for the Tracy in in season two.

SPEAKER_01 43:50

Season two. Yeah, when we're k filming at the Keynes Ballroom. We're I'm outside at the Canes Ballroom. I'm a journalist in that.

SPEAKER_02 43:56

All right, so keep an eye out. Well, okay, Tracy also tells us. Before we leave, where can they find you online? Where should they follow you, find you, all the things?

SPEAKER_01 44:05

Tracy Baker Photographer on Instagram and Facebook. And I think I'm pretty sure it's still Photographer. And TracyBaker.co on my is my website.

SPEAKER_02 44:17

On your website. All right, so looker up finder. That is it for this session of the back office. If this conversation gave you clarity, a new angle, or even just the reminder that you're not the only one navigating this, then it did its job. So if you did find this conversation, which I'm sure you did valuable, share it with another operator who's building, especially other photographers. They need to hear this episode. And you can always hang out with us in between episodes on social media at Signify Marketing Social. I'm Zelena Dillon, and we will meet you back here next time.